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Old 03-17-2013, 05:25 PM
danh danh is offline
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Default Guide For Effective Team Work

Introduction

Did you know this game has a built in squad system with squad functions? In fact, each squad is also split up into THREE fire teams for effective management. AND..each squad has their own designated role and function. Did you know there was a voice chat available for squads only? In fact, the commander can use it to talk to his squad leaders. Also, tanks can use it to talk to their driver and hull mg.

Structure of a Team

So lets talk about the chain of command and the structure of the squads. Generally there are four or five squads depending on if the map is combined arms or not.

Here is how to find the squad menu.

Spoiler!


Below I have a picture of the squad menu.

Spoiler!


Here you can only see the first three squads. This map is Barracks so there are only four squads total I believe. You can see that each squad is divided into three teams, FT1, FT2, and FT3. Each of the rows in the squad represents another fire team. FT1 is usually your assaulting team. FT2 is your rifle team. These guys can be used to support FT1 by going assaulting or suppression. FT3 is your LMG team. The two rifleman in this team can spawn on their Machine Gunner. FT3 is mainly used for suppression.

Now you can also notice each squad has their own unique roles. Squad 1 and Squad 3 are generally used for assaulting. Squad 3 is a bit better because they have the elite rifleman. Squad 2 is made up of rifleman so they are generally used for defending or suppression. I don't have a picture of Squad 4 but they have two Machine Gunners so they are mainly used for suppression.

Commanding Your Team

Now you have an idea of the roles of each squad and fire team. Lets talk about how to utilize them as commander. Being commander is a tough job, not only do you have to call recon and call artillery, you have to take crap from all the whiners in your team saying that you are a bad job. But, did you know you also had a role in commanding your team and directing the fight? What's in a name, right?

This is a list of possible roles for your squads.
  • Squad 1: Assault
  • Squad 2: Defense, Suppression
  • Squad 3: Assault
  • Squad 4: Defense, Suppression
  • Marksman: Assault, Defense, Suppression


Different maps will call for different strategies depending on the situation. I will use a map like Barracks because it is easy to understand.

As the German Commander, you will want to Squad 1, 2, and 3 to attack D while using Squad 4 to take F and the building next to it. You will want to set up your marksman either with Squad 4 or have him defend the road between D and the barracks. Once you have captured D, you will want Squad 2 to defend it while Squad 1 and 3 attack C. Squad 4 will support and give suppression fire. If you had the Marksman with Squad 4 then he is still in a good position. If you had him cover the area behind D, then he should move up and cover the area between B and C.

Lets talk about why I chose to split my squads this way. Squad 1 and 3 are the assault squads so they are best at attacking. Squad 2 is great for defending. So I chose these 3 squads to attack D. Why did I choose Squad 2 instead of Squad 4 to attack D? It is because Squad 4 has TWO machine gunners that are better used to defend the flanks of the position. If I had Squad 4 inside D, the machine gunners would not have a great view of the battlefield and they would be killed by rifleman in C. The reasoning for Squad 4's placement is the same for the Marksman if you had him with Squad 4. Now, if you had the Marksman behind D, the reason for this is because the Russians have a defensive area behind and to the side of D. There are trenches and windows they can use to attack D from the rear. The Marksman can be used to stop attacks from the rear. Also because the area is rather dark and has limited visibility because of the foliage, the Marksman is crucial for covering this area.

I choose to leave behind Squad 2 when I go to attack C. Squad 2 is made up of only rifleman and it would be silly to use a rifleman squad to attack in close quarters. They are best used for mid-range to long-range defense. D is a great fire base because it has two floors and windows on each side. They can suppress the windows at C and pick off attackers attacking D. This helps Squad 1 and Squad 3 enter C safely. Squad 4 is still in a great position. They can move to see the road between A and C and maintain suppression. Marksman can cover the area between B and C. This stops the Allies from reinforcing C from B as well as reinforcing A from the side.

Once D is captured, you will have to decide to attack either A or B first or try to go for both. Depending on what recon picks up and the situation, either strategy would work. Let's try to go for both at once.

Squad 4 is still good where they are at. They can suppress B and A and stop the Russians from attacking C. You should move Squad 2 to C to defend it. Squad 1 should attack B and Squad 3 should attack A. The reason I choose Squad 3 to attack A is because Squad 3 has the Elite Rifleman and A seems a much more dangerous objective than B. Now there can be a number of ways to enter A or B, but the point is, you are using the squads effectively. Now I will switch over to discuss the role of Squad Leader.

Leading Your Squad

I am sure many of you have played this game for many hours and know everything there is to know about Squad Leaders. They get the best guns of course. You use them to throw smoke and mark artillery. When you enter the objective, you cower and hide in a corner while acting as a spawn point for your squad. But, as a leader, you should also lead your squad. I mentioned before that there is a squad chat function you can use to communicate with only your squad. This is helpful because you wouldn't want to relay specific orders over team chat. This would confuse other players when you meant to only talk to your squad.
  • FT1: Assault Team
  • FT2: Rifleman Team
  • FT3: LMG Team

Lets take Spartanovka for example. You are a German Squad Leader of Squad 1. Your commander told you to attack the left side of C. You and your squad are sitting behind the houses planning your assault. There are only a few seconds before you have to move, so how do you want to capture C?

First you want to use FT2 to peek the corners and lay down suppression fire. Then set FT3 along the fences and use your machine gunner to suppress the houses. Next, you tell FT1 to move up as you smoke the flanks. You and FT2 should follow closely behind as FT3 covers your backs and FT1 clears the way ahead. As long as you follow this routine, you are guaranteed to lose very little lives and capture the objective effectively. For other maps and other situations, you will have change how you direct your fire teams of course.

Working in a Squad

Now we move on to talk about the different fire teams.

Fire Team 1
  • Elite Assault
  • Rifleman
  • Rifleman/Elite Rifleman

FT1 is used for assaulting. The Elite Assault should be leading the way and whoever has this role is crucial to the survival of the squad. You do not want to go without caution because the guys behind you are trusting you to lead them safely. The Rifleman and Elite Rifleman has to guard the Elite Assault. As he is looking around the corners, you have to watch his back and look above in case there are open windows.

Fire Team 2
Rifleman x3

FT2 is used for defending and suppression. As this fire team consists only of rifleman, they should not be used to lead the squad in an assault. They are better used to over FT1 and to move along with FT1.

Fire Team 3
  • Machine Gunner
  • Rifleman x2

FT3 is used for defending and suppression. In the case of suppression, the Machine Gunner relies heavily on his two rifleman. The rifleman have better mobility so they should scope the area before the Machine Gunner sets up. Also, Rifleman can protect the Machine Gunner as he lays down destructive fire on the enemy. Another bonus for Realism mode, when a rifleman dies, he can spawn on his Machine Gunner so they can continue working together!

Summary

That sums it up for how you can manage your team, squad, and fire teams for effective team work. Lastly, I will leave some tips and recaps.
  • Squad Chat is bound to "P". This is the worst key it could be bound to. Please rebind.
  • Squad Chat can be used by Commanders to talk to their Squad Leaders, Tanks to talk within the tank, and Squad members to talk to each other.
  • Each Squad has their own role in the team. Squad 1 and 3 are assault squads while Squad 2 and 4 are defending and suppression squads.
  • Within the squads, the squad members are divided into three teams called Fire Teams. Fire Team 1 is the Assault Team. Fire team is the Rifleman Team. Fire Team 3 is the LMG Team. FT1 is used for assault. FT2 is used to support FT1. FT3 is used to suppress the area of attack.
  • Each member of the fire team has their unique roles in supporting the other members.

Finding Other Players

Add {TP} to the end of your name and try to form up with other players that have the same tag in game.

Join the group to find other players!

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/RedOrchestra2TP

tl;dr
This is why the squad system is unused and RO2 does not have effective team work. You don't give a ****.

Last edited by danh; 04-13-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
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MeFirst MeFirst is offline
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The problems I see with the Squad System is that there is no real need for it in the game and that handling squads is way more complicated as it should be.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:37 PM
danh danh is offline
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Originally Posted by MeFirst View Post
The problems I see with the Squad System is that there is no real need for it in the game and that handling squads is way more complicated as it should be.
But imagine if it was done? Would it not be much more effective than the current way we handle team work? I know it is hard, but to be great at any game is not easy. I have led squads in this game in the past and many people can vouch that it really does work. I maintained top scores and won many rounds because of I used the squad system. Personally, I have not commanded a team using the squad system because that is much harder. I made this guide to create a shift in the way players play. We are too used to not doing anything but shooting at the enemy.

Last edited by danh; 03-17-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:29 PM
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The squad system looks good on paper but in practice it is not very useful.

For one thing when picking squad leader you have no idea what squad you will get,and dont know till the game starts, and may find it doesnt suit your style of play.
Second I find that the squad roles while realistic, dont suit the gameplay. I would like to see squads 1+2 be open to any class apart from mg and AT(who have their own) so that if you are stuck with an SL who wants to camp at spawn and snipe with his ppsh you can switch squads.

And several times as SL2 on a fullish server I have only had one or two members in my squad while SL1 has a lot,possibly due to what roles are available, but still pointless having an SL for 2 people.


As for TL's ordering squads around individually ,good luck with that. Its hard enough getting a few of your squad to play as a team let alone 3-4 squads working together.
Also different maps require some roles to be spread out so telling your AT to go to this flank when they need to be on both is counter-productive.

I am quite often SL and try to cater for whatever my squad is made up of, so flanking more for AT and mgs, and just behind or even in the cap for SL1+2.
While squad communication is important, it is fairly useless on some of the smaller maps where everybody knows what has to be done.

So for bots maybe the TL can order squads around but in a pub server where the game is fast and fluid I cant see it being used,especially by some of the TLs Ive had today where using arty was a challenge enough.

Interesting for players who didn't know what squads are about, although singleplayer does cover this well.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:13 PM
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Personally I think the whole squad thing would work, but for the lack of participation. Probably next to impossible on a public server.

Shame.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:19 PM
danh danh is offline
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Originally Posted by Mikeedude View Post
The squad system looks good on paper but in practice it is not very useful.

For one thing when picking squad leader you have no idea what squad you will get,and dont know till the game starts, and may find it doesnt suit your style of play.
Second I find that the squad roles while realistic, dont suit the gameplay. I would like to see squads 1+2 be open to any class apart from mg and AT(who have their own) so that if you are stuck with an SL who wants to camp at spawn and snipe with his ppsh you can switch squads.

And several times as SL2 on a fullish server I have only had one or two members in my squad while SL1 has a lot,possibly due to what roles are available, but still pointless having an SL for 2 people.


As for TL's ordering squads around individually ,good luck with that. Its hard enough getting a few of your squad to play as a team let alone 3-4 squads working together.
Also different maps require some roles to be spread out so telling your AT to go to this flank when they need to be on both is counter-productive.

I am quite often SL and try to cater for whatever my squad is made up of, so flanking more for AT and mgs, and just behind or even in the cap for SL1+2.
While squad communication is important, it is fairly useless on some of the smaller maps where everybody knows what has to be done.

So for bots maybe the TL can order squads around but in a pub server where the game is fast and fluid I cant see it being used,especially by some of the TLs Ive had today where using arty was a challenge enough.

Interesting for players who didn't know what squads are about, although singleplayer does cover this well.
You can use the squad menu to join a certain squad. However, the post is more about training or showing people that there is a squad system in the game. I know it will be hard but I would like to see more proactive team work in the future using effective squad management. Because from the beginning we were not shown something like this, we didn't use the squad system. I am sure if many players knew about how to use the squad system, more would use it. Currently, most don't even know which squad they are in when they join a squad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe View Post
Personally I think the whole squad thing would work, but for the lack of participation. Probably next to impossible on a public server.

Shame.
I believe it would work if more people knew and understood how to use it. The tutorials kind of cover it but then everyone forgets once they on to a multiplayer server and sees that no one is using it. If you can get 5 guys who can be effective squad leaders and commanders then that is all you need. Eventually more people will catch on and change their way of playing.

Last edited by danh; 03-17-2013 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:20 PM
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That is because we are shown the "dumbed down" class picking screen by default instead of the squad selection screen. Should be the other way around.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:36 PM
danh danh is offline
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That is because we are shown the "dumbed down" class picking screen by default instead of the squad selection screen. Should be the other way around.
Agreed.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:26 AM
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Maybe i am wrong but I was under the impression only rifleman class can change squads as their is no space for the other classes in other squads rosters?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:37 AM
oldsoldier173 oldsoldier173 is offline
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In this game anytime you take a leadership position it turns into a 'herding cats' exercise as near everyone is doing 'thier own thing' rather than any form of 'teamwork'. You get frustrated as you are suppressing a target and one trooper because he is more important than anyone else throws smoke so 'he' can cross whatever, effectivly blinding the other individuals suppressing the bad guys, and our 'hero' usually dies as he clears his own smoke. SO the point of that exercise was?

Yes, teamwork can and does work, I work with several individuals and we practice teamwork, where we work together, rather than as an idividual expecting everyone to support thier little mission. And the talk from our 'heros' as they never communicate other than to complain, and we the 'dumb' players have to be clarvioant to know what they are going to do, and if we do not cooperate with them we are the 'bad players' is hilarious at times.

The squad matrix can work and does work with practice and cooperation. The 'style' of play of the individual must be adapted to mesh with the team not vice versa.

Leadership is an art form, and herding cats in this game can be frustrating. I love the call of 'we need a commander' from one of our 'heros' but he/she never steps up and takes charge....wonder why?
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:53 AM
danh danh is offline
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Originally Posted by Mikeedude View Post
Maybe i am wrong but I was under the impression only rifleman class can change squads as their is no space for the other classes in other squads rosters?
Anyone can join any squad by using the squad menu instead of the class menu. Each squad has been predefined so the roles are usually the same with each map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier173 View Post
In this game anytime you take a leadership position it turns into a 'herding cats' exercise as near everyone is doing 'thier own thing' rather than any form of 'teamwork'. You get frustrated as you are suppressing a target and one trooper because he is more important than anyone else throws smoke so 'he' can cross whatever, effectivly blinding the other individuals suppressing the bad guys, and our 'hero' usually dies as he clears his own smoke. SO the point of that exercise was?

Yes, teamwork can and does work, I work with several individuals and we practice teamwork, where we work together, rather than as an idividual expecting everyone to support thier little mission. And the talk from our 'heros' as they never communicate other than to complain, and we the 'dumb' players have to be clarvioant to know what they are going to do, and if we do not cooperate with them we are the 'bad players' is hilarious at times.

The squad matrix can work and does work with practice and cooperation. The 'style' of play of the individual must be adapted to mesh with the team not vice versa.

Leadership is an art form, and herding cats in this game can be frustrating. I love the call of 'we need a commander' from one of our 'heros' but he/she never steps up and takes charge....wonder why?
I'd like to think everyone started off playing the game "wrong." If we had the team work mentality (trying out squad system, using squad chat, etc.) from the beginning, then it would be much different.

Last edited by danh; 03-18-2013 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:17 PM
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Zetsumei Zetsumei is offline
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Im still a fan for removing the regular weapon selection menu, and only showcasing the squad menu selection. That will make it more likely that people actually somewhat act within their squad.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:25 PM
Blitzk.-Bob Blitzk.-Bob is offline
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Im still a fan for removing the regular weapon selection menu, and only showcasing the squad menu selection. That will make it more likely that people actually somewhat act within their squad.
I agree with that.
Also spawning in a "squad" would be better in my opinion.
Right now, 32 people are spawning and everyone is just acting by their own.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:10 PM
danh danh is offline
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Spawning on sl and mg was meant to increase team work but it didn't translate very well into the game. It "dumbed" down SL and they are just used as mobile spawn points.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danh View Post
Spawning on sl and mg was meant to increase team work but it didn't translate very well into the game. It "dumbed" down SL and they are just used as mobile spawn points.
I actually disagree about dumbed down SL. When used properly, they do much more than act as mobile spawn points (and that is only a minor feature). Also, it allows players to spawn near their squad leader where they are more likely to act as a squad than if spawning and scattering all over the map. I actually wish this was in Classic mode to help promote teamwork
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:52 PM
Kowalczyk Kowalczyk is offline
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Brilliant description of how it 'should be' but ... a year or two years (I cant remember when this game was released!) too late to make much of a difference.

I consider myself a team player and 'fairly' intelligent about this game, and yet I almost never look at the squad screen and I think it is very hard to see who is in my squad, especially since some of then die and we get spread all around the map in different positions and spawn points.

Like someone said, it's mostly about lone wolfing it and hoping the general level of your team will overcome the general level of their team and also a big dose of ... oh its Mamayev or Commisars, who cares about squads, Germans always win anyway lol. Too many times there is a total sod in the leadership positions, and that ruins all hope for my team and so any squadwork will be a waste of time.

I have become jaded and if you look at my steam profile, I don't play this any more, although I was very much hoping it would hold my interest longer. I am extra sad for still looking in here from time to time to maybe see some changes have been made to bring me back ... more maps, extra vehicles maybe.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:29 PM
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There can be effective TEAM play, and effective SQUAD play. Team work is less finicky and is what you'll most likely see, even if its just little bits of info here and there.


I personally am not too fussed about squads. :X
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe View Post
I actually disagree about dumbed down SL. When used properly, they do much more than act as mobile spawn points (and that is only a minor feature). Also, it allows players to spawn near their squad leader where they are more likely to act as a squad than if spawning and scattering all over the map. I actually wish this was in Classic mode to help promote teamwork
I do not mean to say the feature "dumbs" it down but the players did. It turned into a mobile spawn point instead of a "meeting up with squad leader to discuss new plans." A mobile spawn is good and all but it should be used to regroup and prepare for next move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwivey View Post
There can be effective TEAM play, and effective SQUAD play. Team work is less finicky and is what you'll most likely see, even if its just little bits of info here and there.


I personally am not too fussed about squads. :X
Yes. There can be very effective team play without the use of squads but the system is there and we COULD have used it but I think it was just lost in all the RO2 mess.

Last edited by danh; 03-18-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by danh View Post
I do not mean to say the feature "dumbs" it down but the players did. It turned into a mobile spawn point instead of a "meeting up with squad leader to discuss new plans." A mobile spawn is good and all but it should be used to regroup and prepare for next move.
Oh, yes, I can see that is how some players may only use it
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:38 PM
danh danh is offline
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Originally Posted by Kowalczyk View Post
Brilliant description of how it 'should be' but ... a year or two years (I cant remember when this game was released!) too late to make much of a difference.

I consider myself a team player and 'fairly' intelligent about this game, and yet I almost never look at the squad screen and I think it is very hard to see who is in my squad, especially since some of then die and we get spread all around the map in different positions and spawn points.

Like someone said, it's mostly about lone wolfing it and hoping the general level of your team will overcome the general level of their team and also a big dose of ... oh its Mamayev or Commisars, who cares about squads, Germans always win anyway lol. Too many times there is a total sod in the leadership positions, and that ruins all hope for my team and so any squadwork will be a waste of time.

I have become jaded and if you look at my steam profile, I don't play this any more, although I was very much hoping it would hold my interest longer. I am extra sad for still looking in here from time to time to maybe see some changes have been made to bring me back ... more maps, extra vehicles maybe.
Yes. Too late for us oldies I guess but I still want to put this information out there for the new kids and the Rising Storm guys. Maybe they will change the way this game is played.
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