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To Balance High Level Play Remove Tier 3 weapons

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masteriamamind

masteriamamind

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 12, 2010
486
109
Evil Lair
#1
New Update, New weapons , New complaints. New nerfs. Weapons being "in line" with other weapons becoming over glorified weapon skins. All the "pro" players crying foul. The bulk of the KF community wanting simply to enjoy the game. Instead of tweaking and "balancing", just have the server side option to disable weapons. Problem solved. If that's not enough take it a step further by have Trader purchasable "badges of honor" That nerf the individual player. Whats the purpose of releasing new weapon if it gets turned into the same weapons already available.
 
#3
This would do well to satisfy large groups that want particular removals immediately, like m99 in HoE circles, and I think it's an excellent idea that should be added, or at least strongly considered.

However, I don't think abandoning attempts at balance after doing this would be good.
On the contrary, after adding this, devs could use it as a tool to prioritize what needs re balancing, by seeing what server hosts thought was so unbalanced it merited removal, instead of just listening to the minority of KF players that post suggestions on this forum. I suppose server hosts are also a minority of the KF player base, though...
 
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#5
C_Gibby said:
I don't see the point too much. I think it's going to make pub play a bit of a bugger for some.

Besides, individual groups of buddies/clanmembers would decide upon themselves that they'd refuse to use those weapons anyway.
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If everyone would do that instead of starting a nerf crusade it would be ok. Since the devs are going to listen to the ones who make the most noise (hardcore veterans), I wanted to give the masses a chance to actually enjoy what they have. L4d2 is popular because they tweak the mechanics(game play and map flow), not the tools (guns) I started this thread as a alternative to the endless weapon balancing. Its getting real old.
 
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#6
masteriamamind said:
If everyone would do that instead of starting a nerf crusade it would be ok. Since the devs are going to listen to the ones who make the most noise (hardcore veterans), I wanted to give the masses a chance to actually enjoy what they have. L4d2 is popular because they tweak the mechanics(game play and map flow), not the tools (guns) I started this thread as a alternative to the endless weapon balancing. Its getting real old.
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L4d2 weapons also have very little to them aside from the fact that they are either for up close (shotguns/SMGS) or for distance (rifles and the magnum pistol) and deal different amounts of damage. one of the greatest things about KF is the variety and versatility of the weapons, it has some of the most unique gunplay in any FPS, balance is essential as every weapon has different intricacies and different strengths and weaknesses.
 
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#8
We could all just stop whining, but since that will never happen...

There is a Trader Manager mutator by Benjamin that lets you go through the trader and remove weapons. If it gets whitelisted (would love to hear what mutators submitted by authors have been for the update, if any) that would at least placate some people until the IJC weapons are re-balanced. Whether any amount of re-balancing will be enough is a good question though.
 
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#9
I'd aim more towards balancing the weapons than just 'optional removal for hardcore players' servers'

It's never good to exclude parts of the player base from each other. The 'well I am better, because I don't use the summer update weapons so my opinion is more valid than yours' arguments will come up in every facet of game discussion regarding anything from tactics to new ideas and suggestions.

Balance the weapons. It's not really that hard to do, there's only really 4 or so now that are game breakingly OP and I've read tons of suggestions, many of which were really good, for bringing them down to a reasonable level. TW has done it before and they can do it again.

It's the hardcores, or 'pros' as you call them, who are the most vocal about it because they are in the best position to say something about it. Lets be honest - it's hard to have a valid opinion on balance if you're not familiar with and/or capable of high level play. That train of thought isn't even reserved for killing floor - or even just computer games. Look at other games that are always being rebalanced - LoL, SC2, etc. How about a real life example: They won't let pro baseball players use aluminum bats or else they'd all be hitting homeruns and the game would be pointless. The best ways of seeing the impact of balance is always taking from the most experienced players.
 
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#10
Amber Glass said:
L4d2 weapons also have very little to them aside from the fact that they are either for up close (shotguns/SMGS) or for distance (rifles and the magnum pistol) and deal different amounts of damage. one of the greatest things about KF is the variety and versatility of the weapons, it has some of the most unique gunplay in any FPS, balance is essential as every weapon has different intricacies and different strengths and weaknesses.
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Seriously. Not to knock the game, but L4D2 weapons feel and sound like BB guns compared to KF weapons. The guns aren't anywhere near as essential to balance in L4D2, and they are also entirely different games, so comparing the two really says nothing.

Also, long-term players having the "loudest" opinions about balance in team-based games has been happening since uh...the beginning of team-based games. It's not unreasonable for people who have been playing the game the longest to want things to remain challenging instead of being oversimplified by new weapons.
 
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#11
Amber Glass said:
L4d2 weapons also have very little to them aside from the fact that they are either for up close (shotguns/SMGS) or for distance (rifles and the magnum pistol) and deal different amounts of damage. one of the greatest things about KF is the variety and versatility of the weapons, it has some of the most unique gunplay in any FPS, balance is essential as every weapon has different intricacies and different strengths and weaknesses.
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constantly changing gun and perk attributes makes things needlessly complicated

karsey22 said:
I'd aim more towards balancing the weapons than just 'optional removal for hardcore players' servers'

It's never good to exclude parts of the player base from each other. The 'well I am better, because I don't use the summer update weapons so my opinion is more valid than yours' arguments will come up in every facet of game discussion regarding anything from tactics to new ideas and suggestions.

Balance the weapons. It's not really that hard to do, there's only really 4 or so now that are game breakingly OP and I've read tons of suggestions, many of which were really good, for bringing them down to a reasonable level. TW has done it before and they can do it again.

It's the hardcores, or 'pros' as you call them, who are the most vocal about it because they are in the best position to say something about it. Lets be honest - it's hard to have a valid opinion on balance if you're not familiar with and/or capable of high level play. That train of thought isn't even reserved for killing floor - or even just computer games. Look at other games that are always being rebalanced - LoL, SC2, etc. How about a real life example: They won't let pro baseball players use aluminum bats or else they'd all be hitting homeruns and the game would be pointless. The best ways of seeing the impact of balance is always taking from the most experienced players.
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My suggestion to have a Server Side Option to disable weapons is no different from having (or not) friendly fire. A subtle change that can radically alter the way the game is played with out disrupting the mechanics already in place. For the record I AM a hardcore player. Just providing a counter view for people who are not well versed in the KF religion.
Deafmute said:
Seriously. Not to knock the game, but L4D2 weapons feel and sound like BB guns compared to KF weapons. The guns aren't anywhere near as essential to balance in L4D2, and they are also entirely different games, so comparing the two really says nothing.

Also, long-term players having the "loudest" opinions about balance in team-based games has been happening since uh...the beginning of team-based games. It's not unreasonable for people who have been playing the game the longest to want things to remain challenging instead of being oversimplified by new weapons.
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My thread to offer a solution in lieu of more of more "balancing" is reasonable. Gives the control of game style to ALL the community. Fun for the casuals and challenge for the veterans without weeks of debate , trolling , or closed circle beta testing.

On a side note. I brought up L4D2 to highlight how having the mechanics down can remove minutia. Balancing is CRUCIAL in competitive game types. Shooters , Fighters , Racers. One little change can change the entire landscape. In Co-op only games. Mechanics that encourage teamwork effect the landscape just as much. I sincerely hope when KF gets a sequel, that the options to adjust the game mechanics are standard with in the retail game itself.
 
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#13
Yeah, this would be a great option for admins to have an use, but I could see this being abused. Imagine an admin who was a particular perk, and decides to troll people by having all the tier2 and up weapons, blocked (not counting his perk's own weapons). What is everyone going to do? I suppose leave, but thats just annoying playing on a server an then have an admin who does stupid stuff like that.

As for comparing KF to L4D and L4D2, those two games are just too different to compare, and honestly, I love l4d for it graphics, and l4d2 because of its mechanics. Not to go too off topic with things, but the one thing that makes l4d2 better than KF, is its ease of ability to customize all the skinned items in the game, and to used modified weapons. Example of various "game balancing" modifications, was pistols with limited ammo, all weapons have a smaller pool of ammo, and damage gets scaled up or down, based off the type of weapon. However, what makes KF better than L4D2, is that its attention to details to the weapons, are amazing. The animations, sounds, and detail work is superior to l4d2.

Back on topic, weapon removal would be nice if they were fair about it, but if one person says that the IJC weapons are unfair, while another person says that they are fair, neither one of them are correct or incorrect, because its a matter of opinion.
 
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#14
You know what guys? I was thinking.. its not the weapons that are so op. They become op if they are used by every player in the server. I mean this - 1 player with AA12 is fairly balanced. 5 supps with AA12 is making the game like a shooting range - no contest for the specimens. 6 man HoE with 1 player per class is still a fair challenge. 6 man HoE with 6 supps or 6 zerks is a joke. If they ever add a new difficulty I prefer to see, beside the difficulty adjustments, the "feature" locking the game to 1 player per class. This way promote the teamplay way more and every player/class is dependent by the other player/class, mixed with even higher diff and we can have something great :) In my opinion ofc.
 
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#15
Rattler said:
You know what guys? I was thinking.. its not the weapons that are so op. They become op if they are used by every player in the server. I mean this - 1 player with AA12 is fairly balanced. 5 supps with AA12 is making the game like a shooting range - no contest for the specimens. 6 man HoE with 1 player per class is still a fair challenge. 6 man HoE with 6 supps or 6 zerks is a joke. If they ever add a new difficulty I prefer to see, beside the difficulty adjustments, the "feature" locking the game to 1 player per class. This way promote the teamplay way more and every player/class is dependent by the other player/class, mixed with even higher diff and we can have something great :) In my opinion ofc.
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6 of a class stomping just means that class is too good to the point of not relying on other classes.

i guarantee you 6 firebugs or 6 commandos would not clear a game.
 
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#18
crashmatusow said:
6 of a class stomping just means that class is too good to the point of not relying on other classes.

i guarantee you 6 firebugs or 6 commandos would not clear a game.
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3 shots with a full charged Husk Gun (at least on lower difficulties, probably not too many more) can fell the big guys, not to mention headshots with Fal/Scar. And of course off-perking gear.

So sir, yer argument is invalid.
 
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