Arad Continuation Maps

[Lonestar Ranger]

I would llike to see a couple of continuation maps of Arad. So if the Germans seize all objectives then a new map comes up that has the Russians pushed back to new terrain. And the opposite true if the Russians win. Arad is open terrain, should not be too difficult to come up with extensions I would think, although I am not a map maker. But sure would like to see this.

[Byte Me]

Arad is as big as its going to get, any larger and people's fps would drop to unplayable levels. Maybe if a version with just infantry or CA was made and about half of the map is cut off until a team caps all the objectives, it then opens up the other half to be capped. Though I don't know which half would be the best to use.

[Lonestar Ranger]

I am not saying make the existing map even bigger. I am saying create additional seperate maps that are continuations of the battle. So if Germans achieve their objectives, then the game loads up a new map that would keep the last objecitve in Russian territory and have that as the new German spawn, but then the rest of the map would be new and have the Russians pushed back into this new territory. The opposite would be true for the Russians.

It would be like playing Arad and then once one side wins, Rakowise map comes up. Instead, the new map would be a continuation of the Arad fight.

[Heinz]

sounds like a good idea man. I think alot of maps would/could benefit from "campaigns" like that.

[Theodrake]

Are you suggesting load a new map or open up the area on the existing map. I would love to see link maps such that the next map you play will depend on who one or lost. Maybe even how well you won.

[Byte Me]

Oh I get it now.

Theodrake
Are you suggesting load a new map or open up the area on the existing map. I would love to see link maps such that the next map you play will depend on who one or lost. Maybe even how well you won.

He is talking about a campaign mode, but just for 1 map (I think only for Arad). Hmm... thats interesting, unlike Enemy Territory, where all the maps can be linked together in a campaign, you just have one set of maps that are. I don't know about arad, but maybe a stalingrad campaign.

[Amarok]

I think it is a damn good idea for most maps, as long as admins may decide wether they use the "campaigns" -so to say- or just the single maps.

Specially maps like Arad, Baraschka and both Stalingrad maps would be fine (well... just my opinion).

[Divinehammer]

kind of like the battlefield europe idea though I have not seen much action over there. Series maps would be cool. Can a server detect who wins and dynamically load a map based on the results. I guess you might be able to let the server be the only one to vote for next map based on the victor. Would be very interesting.

[Vlad the Impaler]

If we're going to have continuation maps of Arad, we're going to have put parts of the Hungarian Third Army in (1st Calvary Replacement Brigade, 6th Replacement division and the 7th Assault Gun Battalion.), it's just unavoidable.

[Lonestar Ranger]

I was thinking that the continuation map, the mapper would keep a small part of the old map like the North Village as the starting point for the Germans if they won Arad and then create new terrain beyond it where the Russians would now spawn. This would be a new map that came up if the Germans won Arad. If the Russians won, the map maker would make a map that kept the German spawn site for the Russians and then created new terrain for the Germans as if they fell back. Again, this would be a new map that would load if the Russians won Arad.

Bottom line map maker would create new maps. In the new map would keep a small slice of the old map depending on who won. And then these continuation maps would load based on who won Arad.

Think this could be done easily. When I move into my new house next month, going to start learning map making and may try myself if it is not done sooner.

[Богдан]

Guys, a little more research please. There were no Germans involved in the fights around Arad. The main players were Hungarians, Romanians and Soviets. Same goes for Odessa (1941) which involved Romanians and Soviets.

"In the meantime [early September 1944], the independent [Hungarian] IV Corps was advancing on the right wing of the offensive, penetrating into the Romanian-held area of Western Transylvania, at Arad. It consisted of the 1st Armored Division, the 6th Replacement Division, the 1st Field Cavalry Replacement Brigade, the 20th and 31st Battalions, the 61st Pontoon Battalion, and the 7th Assault Gun Battalion. This was actually the last independent offensive action of the Honvédség during the Second World War. The IV Corps took Arad on September 13, 1944, less than 13 hours after the offensive started. The IV Corps advanced on Lipova (Lippa) on September 14, but encountered initial resistance west of Păuliş (Ópálos, Alt-Paulisch) from ad-hoc units made up by Romanian cadets from Radna [Máriaradna] (students of the Reserve Infantry NCOs School). The ad-hoc unit – called "Păuliş" Detachment – was made of three battalions of cadets, one platoon of 93rd Infantry Regiment, one battery of the 38th Artillery Regiment (without cannon), the 1st Battalion from the 96th Infantry Regiment and the 61st Heavy Artillery Battalion. The Rumanian defenders put up a stiff fight, with the help of significant close air support (which the attackers totally lacked), considerably slowing the Hungarians’ advance along the Mureş (Maros, Mieresch) River’s northern bank towards Radna. During six days of battle, they claimed 23 Hungarian light and medium tanks (Toldi and Turán) destroyed or damaged, along with three other vehicles. The Rumanian cadets were soon reinforced with experienced Soviet units from the 53rd Soviet Army. Together, they managed to repulse the Hungarian offensive, at significant cost. The 7th Assault Gun Battalion destroyed during these battles 67 T-34 tanks, but lost 8 StuG IIIs completely, 10 were badly damaged and 12 lightly damaged.

When the Soviet and Rumanian allies counterattacked, they completely overwhelmed the badly trained and poorly armed Hungarian units, which gave ground and evacuated Arad on September 21. It was on this day that SS-Obergruppenführer Artur Phleps, Commander-in-Chief of the Gruppe Siebenbürgen (Transylvania Group) lost his life nearby Arad, under uncertain circumstances, shortly after being captured by Soviet troops. Born in Transylvania in 1881, following a notable military career first in the Austro-Hungarian Army, then in the Royal Romanian Army, Phleps ended up volunteering in the Waffen-SS in 1941. Following the Romanian about-face, the gifted commander was ordered by Himmler back to his native land, to organize the region‘s defense against the Allied enemy. Less than a month later, he found his death as POW to the Soviets, not too far away from the place of his birth."

by Dénes Bernád

[Lonestar Ranger]

I am all for Historical accuracy and will let those who are experts dual over it. I am focused on concept of linking continuation engagement maps to form a series of maps for a battle as opposed to one stand alone engagement map like Arad. Several engagement maps can represent a battle.

[Divinehammer]

Originally Posted by Lonestar Ranger

I am all for Historical accuracy and will let those who are experts dual over it. I am focused on concept of linking continuation engagement maps to form a series of maps for a battle as opposed to one stand alone engagement map like Arad. Several engagement maps can represent a battle.

I like this idea and it is not so much making the maps as it is knowing how to make the server load the correct map at the correct time. If you figure that out the rest is cake.

[Isaak Johnson]

I really like this idea a lot, it could give a very good story-line feeling to the whole game. You could even have the maps follow a small storyline as the forces move forward or are pushed back through multiple maps, and the players knowing that what happens in this game can affect the next game.

And it doesn't have to be just for Arad, it could be included for a few maps, espically ones that were a lot larger than the Devs could create in one level.

I think this addition of a small storyline or campain would give an effective and pleasing sence of environment to the players.

And on a side note, it might also be interesting to see some other battles represented by multiple maps that technically happened at the same time in the same relative place, such as two battles for the same town or objective but a few miles down the front from each other.

[Drude]

Originally Posted by Byte Me

Arad is as big as its going to get, any larger and people's fps would drop to unplayable levels. Maybe if a version with just infantry or CA was made and about half of the map is cut off until a team caps all the objectives, it then opens up the other half to be capped. Though I don't know which half would be the best to use.

arad is not big.

Dynamic spawning is the key.

Too bad RO does not support multible spawns like in BF or JO.

[Mr.Russian]

Originally Posted by Lonestar Ranger

I am not saying make the existing map even bigger. I am saying create additional seperate maps that are continuations of the battle. So if Germans achieve their objectives, then the game loads up a new map that would keep the last objecitve in Russian territory and have that as the new German spawn, but then the rest of the map would be new and have the Russians pushed back into this new territory. The opposite would be true for the Russians.

It would be like playing Arad and then once one side wins, Rakowise map comes up. Instead, the new map would be a continuation of the Arad fight.

Simple, beautiful, genius idea!

... also makes "Practice" mode so much more interesting.

[Divinehammer]

I think that even the devs have said that the Arad map is about as big as it will get , continuation would be cool if it is possible for objectives to trigger the turning on of blocking brushes and antiportals then FPS should be okay. Ijust wonder how you would handle other objects like tanks from the first part of the map their status is constantly being reported to the server I think so you would have to turn that off to have more tanks in part two of your map or no tanks or few tanks throughout. Spawns would also have to be dynamic. Does anyone know if there are one way blocking scripts you would have to have these so that stragglers could catch up to the battle. With so much possibly going on infantry only maps may be all that is possible.

[Lonestar Ranger]

If you really wanted to get fancy with this idea, you could do the following. you could have multiple continuation maps to the overall final objective map.

So on a given map, if a team decided to withdraw before the other team has captured all objectives, then the withdrawing team could pick which one of two or three continuation maps it wants to fall back to. It would pick the one best suited for continued defense of the final objective map.

On the other hand if the team that is winning takes all objectives then it as the winning team and team with the initiative decides which continuation map or road to overall victory it wants to follow next.

This is sort of a map series idea the way there are multiple routes to winning on a single map in the game now i.e. take appartments or square, take tower or HQ in Odessa.

Also would be neat is if each team had an overall reinforcement rate that carried with it to each map by the server. So if a team is taking a beating on one map, they might decide to fall back to a continuation map that is better for defense to conserve their strength.

[Divinehammer]

I asked about this ability over under level editing and Yoshiro says that there was a mod in UT2004 that did a map continuation of sorts It would be good to know how they did it. I would just be a happy with a linear progression. But to add another flavor several servers could report to a web server each night with how the days battles went with this info you could create fronts and a theater of war. interesting....

[Lonestar Ranger]

Yes it would be great. Again, once I move into my new house first part of July, I am going to make a stab at doing maps.