More open map design

[Cyper]

If there is one thing I really wish, besides the removal of unlocks and XP, then that's improved map design. It would be a huge step forward if the maps were designed less tunnelshooter-like and more open for the players input. No convenient placed cover, no ''return to daa combat zone naaww!'' messages, a 360 degree angle to approach the objectives, and spawn points that are placed further away for the enemy. Basically; maps designed for smooth gameplay with 64 players. On top of this vehicles for transport and such would not be wrong.

[r5cya]

I'm all in favor of huge maps.

[Trotskygrad]

yeah lots of cover makes maps look cluttered and boring.

I'm all in favor for less cover.

[roosterhung]

Yes yes yes. Better map design then RO2 maps please!

[Coopsta]

I kind of agree with this. Most of the stock maps are massively larger than their playable areas. Take Spartanovka for example. If you have ever zoomed all the way out because of a camera glitch, the entire surrounding villages are modeled.

Here's a realism argument: If these maps were opened up and the players could go way out to the edges of an urban map, you would realistically start running into other units fighting. In the game, the only soldiers you would meet would be from the battle you left. This is inconsistent with reality. Unless we want a ton of random bots sucking up resources out by the edges, this is a problem. The same problem would occur on Rising Storm maps because you are fighting as part of a much larger battle in most cases than is depicted in-game. For some maps this would not be a problem but for others it would be inappropriate to go way the hell out of the way.

Also, only a roostalgic old codger would say there's too much cover. Have you tried playing Grain Elevator in classic? The cover is fine. Try playing Olgledow without tanks. Spoiler Alert: it's only fun if you're Russian.

[Baron von thryke]

I kind of agree with you, but at the same time RO2 seems more 'lethal' that NO1. But having said that, Zhitomir 1941 was a good map that made good use of both open spaces and cramped indoor areas, something similar in RO2'd be good.

[Warishell]

Originally Posted by Coopsta

.....Take Spartanovka for example. If you have ever zoomed all the way out because of a camera glitch, the entire surrounding villages are modeled....

Those villages are not fully modeled... It looks alright from afar but its just one static mesh like most of the modeled outskirts in game. It's only ment to be viewed from a distance. You could open the whole area up in the sdk.

My problem with this map is similar though, I dont like how rectangle it is. Granted the real location actually looks very rectangle, I would have liked to have seen further out positions to lay down covering fire, a wider area for germans to attack from and more buildings and less exposed areas for the russian to defend. Station has a similar problem.

Stalingrad was close quarters and confined but I don't think attacks were forced down these kinda clustered bottlenecks. There was a certain amount of room to work with and to apply tactics, these maps limit the tactics which is a shame because the game has the right gameplay to permit it.

I'm not sure what the reasons for making these maps this small are, i'm thinking its for performance, to get as much clutter(another aspect of stalingrad) they did into such small area's I think is very demanding performance wise so making things wider and bigger would mean less detail applied to everything. But I can't be sure of all this... It could be also they figured people didn't want to make the distance between objectives. Making maps small and confined means you get to the frontlines very quickly.

[Nikita]

Lol, on the last note--what would the Japanese get to transport troops? A truck? **Flashes back to a ridiculous scripted event in COD:WAW where Japanese troops idiotically drove fully loaded troop trucks straight at Shermans and died a horrible, stupid death** They never fielded a halftrack or armored APC in large numbers.

[Trotskygrad]

Originally Posted by Nikita

Lol, on the last note--what would the Japanese get to transport troops? A truck? **Flashes back to a ridiculous scripted event in COD:WAW where Japanese troops idiotically drove fully loaded troop trucks straight at Shermans and died a horrible, stupid death** They never fielded a halftrack or armored APC in large numbers.

reminds me of that time where I blew up a fully loaded transport truck in MoW:AS

12 troops 1 grenade

chea chea chea

A Ho-Ha would be appropriate if a Philippines 1944 map is added

[Landrik]

@Baron:

HoS is definitely more lethal than Ost/DH. During our realism trainings at the time squads would melt like butter even in full cover because of how accurate everyone is. Even using a MG was a bit like a deathtrap when tried to be used as a squad support weapon. It was more like a flashing target for a "yeah, I'm suppressed, but I can return very accurate rifle fire even so" rifleman.

[Fallschirmhans]

I disagree on some parts. Yes, more open maps would be nice, but maps like Mamayev Kurgan become a contest of who can chase the enemy. Open maps will only work when you have 30+ people playing on even sides with a map that is evenly balanced between defensive and offensive objectives and cover. An infantry version of Gumrak would just be a killing ground but Mamayev Kurgan is just hide and seek. Why not just make a larger version of Fallen Fighters or Commissars House?

[ButchCassidy]

Originally Posted by Cyper

If there is one thing I really wish, besides the removal of unlocks and XP, then that's improved map design. It would be a huge step forward if the maps were designed less tunnelshooter-like and more open for the players input. No convenient placed cover, no ''return to daa combat zone naaww!'' messages, a 360 degree angle to approach the objectives, and spawn points that are placed further away for the enemy. Basically; maps designed for smooth gameplay with 64 players. On top of this vehicles for transport and such would not be wrong.

Easy solution..Get cracking with the SDK..Want bigger maps then start making them..

[MeFirst]

Pretty much on this like OP.

Already mentioned it in another thread but most RO2 maps are very linear and in the end kind of narrow push maps. The thing I liked a lot about RO1 and DH is that a lot of maps are more open but still have a intense battlefield feeling and gameplay (I dont mean the EA games). Take maps like Ogledow from RO1 or Lutremange from DH, those maps are 2 good exampled you can spend the entire round attacking or defending a single point in this map and it still makes fun and you dont feel like you miss something that is happening on the other side of the map.

[Vyllis]

Yes, this !

And no magical haze/fog that block your vision at 220 meters.

I am right now on an island in the Indian ocean with cloudy weather. I can see up to the ocean horizon and see the coastline 17km from here (even in hot weather).

[Nestor Makhno]

Originally Posted by Vyllis

Yes, this !

And no magical haze/fog that block your vision at 220 meters.

I am right now on an island in the Indian ocean with cloudy weather. I can see up to the ocean horizon and see the coastline 17km from here (even in hot weather).

Wow - your eyes must have a pretty awesome rendering system

[Nikita]

Originally Posted by Vyllis

Yes, this !

And no magical haze/fog that block your vision at 220 meters.

I am right now on an island in the Indian ocean with cloudy weather. I can see up to the ocean horizon and see the coastline 17km from here (even in hot weather).

I gather the island hasn't been under naval and air bombardment for the last three days?

Whenever I hear people complaining about haze/fog in RO2, I always remind them that this is arguably the most titanic battle in the history of mankind, with a massive pyre of smoke rising from Stalingrad through much of the fighting. Chances are, there was more than a little haze hanging over the city.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Personally, I don't buy the claim that you NECESSARILY need wide open maps to have fun Red Orchestra gameplay. Even a primarily CQB map, as long as the map doesn't have too few chokepoints or spawns too close to the action/too closely timed, can have some great fighting.

Leningrad is the classic example.

[Vyllis]

rendering system

Sure, Anyway the Iwo Jima screenshots are looking good.

I always remind them that this is arguably the most titanic battle in the history of mankind

I understand your point, but we are talking about RS. It will cover a large front/theatre and not a city. So, on some battlefield/maps. Not all places on the PTO were shelled. I won't expect to see "fake" fog on all maps.

But as Nestor said, it's an engine problem, just let their artist/mappers do their best about it. I looked the video and from what i seen it is looking good.

[Fallschirmhans]

You've got to think about how realistic this is. This isn't Coward of Duty where you can see a million miles, this is going to be like it actually was. Just because you can't see there's no need to act like your on your period.

[Vyllis]

This isn't Coward of Duty where you can see a million miles, this is going to be like it actually was. Just because you can't see there's no need to act like your on your period.

Pardon?

First in Coward of Duty you generally don't see over 100 meters and fight at 20 meters of distance. Know your subject before speaking.

2nd. I gave what i think of some map design/fog. This is a forum, this is my right, i didn't insulted anyone.

3rd. We are speaking of the "fake (unrealistic)" fog used because of the constraint of the Unreal Engine 3 (refer to Nestor answer).

4rth. There wasn't a constant fog on all the battlefields. The sun do not hide himself and the devil fog does not come from the inferno to cover all the earth when the humans race goes in war.

5fth. I don't see the point of "act like your on your period. " when i giving my point of view on a forum and i will do like i didn't understand this.

6. I like what i see from RS and hope they keep it up.

[Nestor Makhno]

Everybody should chill out a bit - go outside, have a run in the park.. then come back and realise the basic pointlessness of forum squabbles.