Hardcore Realism Suggestions Package and Proposal, to Tripwire, modders and community

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

• More realistic muzzle flashes
Third person muzzle flashes should be the same ones from first person, and only appear and illuminate the environment when they actually occur, which is not for every single shot. Additionally, the illuminating effect should last only a fraction of the time it currently lasts

• Auto balance
Priority for which players gets auto balanced as follows: Most inactive players or AFK, players with least overall points, Players with least kills. Making the last player who joined be the one auto balanced as a server option

Suggestion from Ducky: More players present allows for larger player difference gap in teams:
• Server with up to 30 players allows for 1 player difference, with 30+ it allows for 2 player difference, and server with 60+ players allows for 3 player difference. I made a few adjustments Ducky

• More Realistic recoil
Revision of upwards recoil of all weapons in game, specially Submachine Guns and Machine Guns, braced on surface and on bipod. Upwards Recoil should be minimal. Realistic PPSh41 recoil climb, meaning almost none, since it had a muzzle brake

• More realistic Movement while in Iron Sights
Aiming Down Sights does not limit player to walking speed, instead only limits player to a slightly slower jog speed. Player's weapons should move more wildly accompanying the increased speed

Slight changes to the ones below

• Realistic Hipfiring Machine guns
Machine Gun constantly stays at lowered position unable to fire, the same way AT rifles are by default or when directly facing a wall. When player presses the command, à la ROOST, the Machine Gun quickly raises, drains a small constant amount of stamina and limits player to a slightly slower jog speed. Aiming around should have the same molasses feel of HMGs, but less somewhat. The specific bind should be up to the player. The recoil pulls the weapon a lot more the right side. Beltfed MG34 unable to hipfire until belt has a least 50 rounds. DP-28 for being lighter drains less stamina and raises slightly quicker

• Machine Gunner shoulder firing
Machine Gunners capable of shouldering Light Machine Guns for a constant heavy cost of stamina, when stamina is low below a certain threshold, they cannot shoulder it anymore. Shouldering limits player's slowed jog speed even more. Aiming around should have the same molasses feel of HMGs, but less somewhat. Beltfed MG34 unable to hip or shoulder fire until belt has a least 50 rounds. Other class players that pick up Machine Guns from the ground can only hipfire. To toggle shoulder fire one would not have to command hipfire mode first. The specific binds should be up to the player. When shouldering the LMG, bracing it on a surface (small white MG42 icon), all the side effects should cease, and it would be essentially the same condition as having it normally deployed on a surface in regards to sway, recoil however would be higher than deploying normally, with the cover system. The only difference being, that lateral surfaces that also brace weapons, should not work with the LMGs. DP-28 for being lighter drains less stamina and raises slightly quicker

Thanks again for the feedback all, enjoy:

A Bridge Too Far Suite - YouTube

[AtheistIII]

Aiming Down Sights does not limit player to walking speed, instead only limits player to a slightly slower jog speed. Player's weapons should move more wildly accompanying the increased speed

I would also suggest that bolting is either impossible or very slow while IS-jogging.

Other class players that pick up Machine Guns from the ground can only hipfire.

Maybe it would be a good idea to bind some weaponskill-levels to specific classes.
For example a russian rifleman handles his MN-rifle on a lvl10, an elite-rifleman at lvl 20, all other classes who pick up a rifle have to use it at lvl 0.

[ross]

I would actually keep walking-IS speed as it is, but still increase movement or change camera position so that a) it moves loosely with the weapon, and b) the player aims slightly over the sights - as suggested here.

[Sarkis.]

Originally Posted by AtheistIII

I would also suggest that bolting is either impossible or very slow while IS-jogging.

Ok, slower bolting, fair enough

Originally Posted by AtheistIII

Maybe it would be a good idea to bind some weaponskill-levels to specific classes.
For example a russian rifleman handles his MN-rifle on a lvl10, an elite-rifleman at lvl 20, all other classes who pick up a rifle have to use it at lvl 0.

Weapons leveling introduces a lot of problems, if it didn't I would agree

Originally Posted by ross

I would actually keep walking-IS speed as it is, but still increase movement or change camera position so that a) it moves loosely with the weapon, and b) the player aims slightly over the sights - as suggested here.

About the walking IS speed, I actually have to trust the other mechanics I suggested like the increasead sway while moving, and proper eye relief for scopes.. This increased speed would have to be accompanied by increased weapon bobbing around. But aiming over the sights is a good one, will include.

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

• More realistic Movement while in Iron Sights
Aiming Down Sights does not limit player to walking speed, instead only limits player to a slightly slower jog speed. Player's weapons should move more wildly accompanying the increased speed. Bolting becomes slower, and the player's view moves over the iron sights alignment, slowing to walking speed, walking speed button, brings the view back

Meanwhile in Brazil..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=podqKi-q04w

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

Reorganized the Topics a bit further. The three main topics describing Authentic Mode are well discriminated now. Those three are what would take to get Vanilla RO2 and make the Authentic Realism Mode, in its simple yet functional state. Hope TWI is seeing this.

also some inclusions:

• More Realistic Free Aim
Free Aim remains the same, but when out of Iron Sights the weapons will always tend back to the center after having floated away

• More realistic movement while in Iron Sights
Aiming Down Sights does not limit player to walking speed, instead only limits player to a slightly slower jog speed. Player's weapons should move more wildly accompanying the increased speed. Bolting becomes slower, and the player's view moves over the iron sights alignment or scope, slowing to walking speed with the walking speed button, brings the view back down. Walking or Jogging while in Iron Sights wildly increased sway in relation to vanilla game, even more while crouching. If proper scope eye relief could be simulated it would be awesome

• Ugly AA and sky explosions
Would be best to take this effect out, or improve it drastically with some search lights during night maps, copy from Band of Brothers series, Episode 2, Day of Days, right in the end when Winters stares into the burning town, and there is some AA going wild

Spoiler!

Music of the Wehrmacht-Droben im Oberland- YouTube

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

• Specific spawn time of specific classes
Entirely new approach to the spawn system: Spawn timers are personal, which means no more waves. Each class niche has a specific spawn time. Common Riflemen get a discount. And life is also rewarded with your next spawn time already being discounted while you live, after a reasonable time threshold.

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Common Soldiers
Rifleman.................................................. ......... 35 seconds
Assault, Engineer, Elite Rifleman, Anti-Tank Soldier.... 40 seconds

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Support Soldiers
Machine Gunner, Sniper, Squad Leader.....................45 seconds

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Commanders
Commander.................................................. ..... 50 seconds
Tank Commander and crew................................... 60 seconds

• When a player of any class is able to stay alive for 150 seconds, 2 minutes and a half, he earns a spawn without a timer. He will spawn instantly when killed in that one life.
• Getting Team Killed will always spawn you in 10 seconds
• Each time a player Team Kills he will recieve a 5 second increase to his personal spawn timer
These values would be the same in all Territoy maps, with no attacker/defender bias

Hope you people enjoy that suggestion

Paul Anka-The Longest Day(Orchestra Version).mp4 - YouTube

[AtheistIII]

When a player of any class is able to stay alive for 150 seconds, 2 minutes and a half, he earns a spawn without a timer. He will spawn instantly when killed in that one life.

Take tankers out of this for CA-Maps.
its way to easy for them to stay alive for 150sec and somewhat negates their long respawntime

[Sarkis.]

Ok, I'll discriminate for tanks, 4 minutes ok ?

[AtheistIII]

I don't know, i think it would need some testing to work out how long a tank will survive on the battlefield.

[Proud_God]

Originally Posted by Sarkis.

Edited OP

• Specific spawn time of specific classes
Entirely new approach to the spawn system: Spawn timers are personal, which means no more waves. Each class niche has a specific spawn time. Common Riflemen get a discount. And life is also rewarded with your next spawn time already being discounted while you live, after a reasonable time threshold.

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Common Soldiers
Rifleman.................................................. ......... 35 seconds
Assault, Engineer, Elite Rifleman, Anti-Tank Soldier.... 40 seconds

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Support Soldiers
Machine Gunner, Sniper, Squad Leader.....................45 seconds

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Commanders
Commander.................................................. ..... 50 seconds
Tank Commander and crew................................... 60 seconds

• When a player of any class is able to stay alive for 150 seconds, 2 minutes and a half, he earns a spawn without a timer. He will spawn instantly when killed in that one life.
• Getting Team Killed will always spawn you in 10 seconds
• Each time a player Team Kills he will recieve a 5 second increase to his personal spawn timer
These values would be the same in all Territoy maps, with no attacker/defender bias

Hope you people enjoy that suggestion

IMO:

You can't throw away wave spawning, it's a beautiful mechanic that works.

If you want to make certain classes rarer, do it in another way. For example, special classes' LOAD OUT only spawn at certain intervals, and can be picked up at resupply points.

For example: let's say a LMG is available every 2 minutes (as an example, not saying it should be 2 minutes). Let's say the LMG player dies at the 40 s into the game. He will now wave respawn as normal, but with a rifle. When 80 secs have passed (2 minutes - 40 s) he will receive notification that a new LMG has arrived. He can pick this up at a resupply point, or will spawn with it when dying.

[AtheistIII]

If you want to make certain classes rarer, do it in another way. For example, special classes' LOAD OUT only spawn at certain intervals, and can be picked up at resupply points.

For example: let's say a LMG is available every 2 minutes (as an example, not saying it should be 2 minutes). Let's say the LMG player dies at the 40 s into the game. He will now wave respawn as normal, but with a rifle. When 80 secs have passed (2 minutes - 40 s) he will receive notification a new LMG has arrived. He can pick this up at a resupply point, or will spawn with it when dying.

This sounds great.
I'd love a mutator for this.

[Avtomat]

Originally Posted by Sarkis.

• When a player of any class is able to stay alive for 150 seconds, 2 minutes and a half, he earns a spawn without a timer. He will spawn instantly when killed in that one life.

What if its a sniper or machinegunner who has been wreaking havoc on your team for the past 3-4 minutes by spawnkilling, noone in your team had the competance to kill him other than yourself. You kill him and he spawns instantly= he's back in his former position of destruction within seconds since RO's current maps allow that.

I think the only ones who would get quicker spawns are the ones who achived something really sweet, like blowing up a tank with an AT grenade. They could spawn 5-15 seconds earlier but minimum respawn should stay atleast 20 seconds.

[Lord_Lovat]

Hi,

I have nothing helpfull to contribute to this thread but I just want to say that this whole hardcore realism suggestion is superb!
It has my support and I hope one day something wil come out of this.

carry on the good thinking.

[Sarkis.]

Originally Posted by Proud_God

IMO:

You can't throw away wave spawning, it's a beautiful mechanic that works

I swear I tried keeping the waves. But it just doesn't work well. Big wave time spawn introduces a number of problems and uncertainty. Makes the rest of my ideas, regarding spawing, problematic and at times senseless. If I was shooting for a wave I did not have the personal accountability achieved by a personal timer system. Timers would go mad trying to achieve a medium timer that felt proper. Some times a guy would spawn in 10 seconds other in 40. It was utter abysmal and unnecessary. People will still spawn in a big wave when forced by the commander.

Did change the instant spawn bonus for being alive long for a 10 seconds one and other thing

Spoiler!

• Specific spawn time of specific classes
Entirely new approach to the spawn system: Spawn timers are personal, which means no more waves. Each class niche has a specific spawn time. Common Riflemen get a discount. And life is also rewarded with your next spawn time already being discounted while you live, after a reasonable time threshold.

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Common Soldiers
Rifleman.................................................. ......... 35 seconds
Assault, Engineer, Elite Rifleman, Anti-Tank Soldier.... 40 seconds

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Support Soldiers
Machine Gunner, Sniper, Squad Leader.....................45 seconds

• Spawn Countdown Timer for Commanders
Commander.................................................. ..... 50 seconds
Tank Commander and crew................................... 60 seconds

• When a player of any class is able to stay alive for 150 seconds, 2 minutes and a half, he earns a spawn with a 10 second timer. He will spawn in 10 seconds when killed in that one life. For Tank Commanders that staying alive time will be of 240 seconds, 4 minutes
• Getting Team Killed will always spawn you in 5 seconds, except for tank commanders
• Each time a player Team Kills he will recieve a 10 second increase to his personal spawn timer
These values would be the same in all Territoy maps, with no attacker/defender bias

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Why would you want to change spawn times, which should be on a per map basis (and if I understand correctly, set by the MAPPER)? Are you assuming all maps, reinforcements etc should be exactly the same even for vastly different scenarios? Sounds like you are trying to take something that is naturally different depending on the scenario and just make it generic and unrealistic...

[Sarkis.]

Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe

Why would you want to change spawn times, which should be on a per map basis (and if I understand correctly, set by the MAPPER)? Are you assuming all maps, reinforcements etc should be exactly the same even for vastly different scenarios? Sounds like you are trying to take something that is naturally different depending on the scenario and just make it generic and unrealistic...

I don't think they should be on a per map basis. Let's look at Mamayev Kurgan TE for instance: The Germans, have more ticket reinforcements, spawn in waves of 15 seconds while the Russians spawn in waves of 25 seconds; the Germans have shorter cooldown of artillery, and both spawn at generally the same distance to the cap zone. That makes life as a Russian in that map pretty hellish if your team does not play really well. The whole thing is rigged for attackers generally, they can cap from outside unmolested inside trenches and behind walls at times, in all maps, not to mention deploying walls of smoke. All those things put together will always keep the line moving foward. Now... If the game was supposed to have longer time spawns and last 10 minutes more, the factor that should come into play to win the most, would be playing better, getting enemies killed. It would not be a race against time for attackers and a race for tickets for defenders. And I find that in these new settings ticket or spawn time bias are undesired. I am letting the cooldown of arty bias remain in favour or attackers however.

Still, I could be pretty much wrong. So people have got to let me know providing feedback.

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

• Global Round Time Increase
Added 15 Minutes to account for slower pace and to make epic lasting battles. Territory Maps Only, Lockdown On, Overtime Off

• Global Tickets Increase and Symmetry
Global Ticked Increase by 60%, no more Ticket bias for attackers or defenders

• Artillery
Entirely new approach to the Artillery. Commanders are able to set the firing coordinates directly on the map, they can still spot targets on the game world, but that will equate in the same result. Squad Leaders can and should spot targets, for the targets they spot will be corrected targets, that will be a little bit more powerfull, with more rounds impacting the ground and will equate on a shorter cooldown time by 20 seconds. Targets set by the commander will be normal. The targets on map from Squad Leaders however will only last 1 minute in the map, requiring a re-spot from time to time. The artillery types gain each its individual cooldown timer, being able to be used individually, but each adjusted accordingly:

Mortars................... 3:00
Regimental Guns...... 5:00
Rockets................. 10:00

Defender/Attacker bias for cooldown timer can remain

• Rocket Artillery
More Katyusha and Nebelwerfer Rocket Artillery Salvos. Not only a single salvo but three. Currently calling Rocket Artillery costs a lot of cool down time, but is not always effective for the price

Wohlauf Kameraden, aufs Pferd!

Canção da ARTILHARIA - YouTube

[ross]

I would be very dubious about any global modifications to spawns or reinforcement numbers as it can rather severely turn a map against one side. Asymmetrical reinforcements are an important balance tool for mappers and on some maps I would even say they're absolutely critical.

[Sarkis.]

Ok. I'll keep the spawn time bias of attack/defend teams. But with 15 additional minutes for attackers to win and 60% more tickets all around, there is no need for Differential Tickets anymore. In current RO2, the tickets are winning the fight. Always best to play as an attacker, except in classic and some maps. In Authentic game mode, one thing is dead sure: you kill the enemy and he will sit on the bench for at least 35 seconds. So killing the enemy is your only concern. And it will give your team victory.