That 'feeling'

[Floyd]

Basically, what melipone said.

Its very subjective and all very relative. RO1 worked well for me.

Perhaps its just me, but when I look at an enemy player in the game (RO1 or RO2), I don't think to myself...."OH. He's fifty meters away! Damn he looks tiny." or visa versa. After playing the games a few times, I learned to either aim high (as in RO1) or raise my sights (RO2) depending upon either previous shots or based up how big or small the target is. I've never stepped off the distance between buildings or cover. If you can't find the target well enough, he must be too far away. Its time to move up. I'm sorry but the pixel arguement escapes me.

Zoom or no zoom. I can live with or without it. I'm not against it or for it, per se. If its there, you can be I'm going to use it. If its not, its business as usual. Find the enemy before he finds me.....

But back on topic.....I still say its the lack of INTENSE LOUD sound.....

[Lutze]

Originally Posted by Floyd

But back on topic.....I still say its the lack of INTENSE LOUD sound.....

Try turning the volume up?

I find the beta classic mode in its current state a thoroughly enjoyable experience, not dissimilar to RO of old although DH still has it for intensity. All it needs is more people on the servers (a grand total of 4 people playing beta as I write) and a few more open maps!

[kalle]

I liked the sounds better in RO1. I'm not sure if they were better techniacally or more authentic but there was more punch to them.

The open maps as people mentioned.

While the graphics in RO2 is better, there was no swapping of LOD models and textures, and it supported better antialiasing. To me a stable picture is more important than fancy graphics.

As the graphics becomes better there is also the problem of the "uncanny valley". That is when virtual images (especially when it comes to humans) gets closer to photographic realism, the errors becomes more and more obvious. While RO2 isn't exactly photorealistic, I think it suffers quite a bit of this (the midget heroes of stalingrad thread comes to mind)..

Gameplay was better, which classic fixes.

[oldslowguy]

And it's not all the technical stuff that's already been mentioned, it was the personal nature of the game, at least for me, chatting ggs or nice shot etc, it was fun. Having played classic in the beta recently, it has come a long long way closer to RO1 in mechanics/style, and I have very high hopes for it. I hope the fun comes back too. TWB*SlowBull

[SQBsam]

Looks like I'll just have to Ctrl C -> Ctrl V every time somebody says "the sounds need to be louder!"

"We're not talking about volume here, so TWI won't get in trouble. Anyway, if we wanted more volume we could just turn up our speakers!

What we want is for it to sound like the guns are loud... in the game world. This requires an echo and other acoustic information. The mosin sounds are spot on for firing in a padded cell with sound dampening walls, and that just feels odd in the middle of a field or in a city street.

For example, comparing those first two mosin videos you can hear that the gun itself sounds the same in Hickock45s video as in the game, but the echo is MUCH longer and higher pitched.

Lastly, blanks are generally louder than regular rounds, by quite a large factor too! Because they use much more propellant in order to cycle the gun properly without firing a mass (usually taken by the bullet)."

The point is that "volume" is mostly achieved in a game through tricks, lowering other sounds or adding crazy amounts of reverberation will make somebody say, "wow, this is loud" when actual the decibel level has not changed. We need a different reverberation sound, as well as high treble bullet cracks.

[kalle]

Looking through the videos in OP again: the soundscape in RO1 is so much more intense than in RO2. I didn't remember how different it acctually is from RO2, I was mainly concerned with the bolt action rifles in RO2 sounding too weak, but now I realize that the whole soundscape was a lot more powerful.

Maybe a "classic sound mode" could be introduced which adds more echo / reverb (or whatever it is that give the sounds in RO1 more punch)

[I. Kant]

I'm sorry, but the western valley on Kaukasus (well, most of the map, actually) was not pixel hunting? Should we list examples of maps in RO1 where you're rather stationary and you're shooting at a very small cluster of pixels?

Like you yourself wrote, melipone, the game was not fair for everyone based on the kind of peripherals they had — success was a function of monitor size, mainly. And yes, you exaggerated, I feel 320x240 was hardly one of the more popular resolutions (in fact, was it even an option?). What was the idea behind exaggerating that?
Indeed, looking at the other factors, it only serves to show how much success at RO1 relied on factors extraneous to the game — how close you sat to the screen (unfortunately, sometimes I found myself leaning in really close to the screen to pull of that whooping, and I'll exaggerate here, 40 m shot) and your eyesight. Ideally, you'd have a solution for your eyesight which would take it out of the equation, but still — it's something extraneous.

With ROHOS, all these extraneous factors affect your performance a lot less. For me, that is a good thing (and something I welcomed just as much as, for instance, the idea of a spotting system, as that helped to take the language barrier out of the equation), as a level playing field feels simply better.

[Devil_Inside]

Well, playing Ogledow custom map in ROHOS brought me the exact feeling I had in ROOST. So...

[u-s-e-r]

Originally Posted by SQBsam

What we want is for it to sound like the guns are loud... in the game world. This requires an echo and other acoustic information. The mosin sounds are spot on for firing in a padded cell with sound dampening walls, and that just feels odd in the middle of a field or in a city street.

The problem in that is the current sound engine, there isnt effects on the audio that would come from the environment youre in. e.g. Outside there is echo, reverbation, unlike inside and so forth.

[bone]

Watching those vids of RO really brought back the enjoyment I had for that game, the big open maps, the amazing sounds, the bullet cracks and sense of confusing and fear, really nothing I have experienced in ROHOS has that same feel about it.

I can totally appreciate the current game for what it is, its smoother, graphically superior and it has evolved for better or for worse. I do wish it could take the best parts of RO and update them with the ROHOS tech.

The real epic tank battles, the total horror of seeing a Tiger tank appear and knowing that if they angled properly and you could not get a shot off in time, you were dead...the appreciation of a good driver/gunner combo.

Then the amazing infantry fights, the sense of dread when you heard the brrrrrrrrrrr and bullet cracks of the german MG's lighting up your position, the feeling of excitement when you managed to set up your own MG in a sweet spot defending an area and knowing that the infantry would be scared to lift their heads up, praying you get ammo before they attempt to rush you, in ROHOS I never use the MG unless I have no choice, I dont know what it is about them, but they seem to just be a free frag for the enemy, nobody fears an MG entrenched in ROHOS, you just poke your head up and head shoot the gunner... I want that old feeling back.

[kalle]

Originally Posted by u-s-e-r

The problem in that is the current sound engine, there isnt effects on the audio that would come from the environment youre in. e.g. Outside there is echo, reverbation, unlike inside and so forth.

This can't be correct? Sounds get muffled at distance and sounds are different inside buildings, or are you saying that those effects pre-recorded and not realtime? I agreee that the sounds in RO1 was superior though.

Originally Posted by bone

Watching those vids of RO really brought back the enjoyment I had for that game, the big open maps, the amazing sounds, the bullet cracks and sense of confusing and fear, really nothing I have experienced in ROHOS has that same feel about it.

I can totally appreciate the current game for what it is, its smoother, graphically superior and it has evolved for better or for worse. I do wish it could take the best parts of RO and update them with the ROHOS tech.

The real epic tank battles, the total horror of seeing a Tiger tank appear and knowing that if they angled properly and you could not get a shot off in time, you were dead...the appreciation of a good driver/gunner combo.

Then the amazing infantry fights, the sense of dread when you heard the brrrrrrrrrrr and bullet cracks of the german MG's lighting up your position, the feeling of excitement when you managed to set up your own MG in a sweet spot defending an area and knowing that the infantry would be scared to life their heads up, praying you get ammo before they attempt to rush you, in ROHOS I never use the MG unless I have no choice, I dont know what it is about them, but they seem to just be a free frag for the enemy, nobody fears an MG entrenched in ROHOS, you just poke your head up and head shoot the gunner... I want that old feeling back.

I agree with you 100% and seem to have similar memories about RO1. Even though classic improves a lot of things, I haven't had this kind of experiences in RO2.

Sounds, maps, fear of death and overall less gamey content all plays a part IMO.

[melipone]

I.Kant, the peripherals will still be a factor in any game even if you can zoom. Yu can still "pixel hunt" in RO2 just as much as RO1, its just you do it further out now, and if you have a poor monitor you may still pixel hunt at too short a range compared to other players. When I played RO1 I only had a 19" CRT and it was fine for me btw

Zoom for me is about immersion and making shots feel more rewarding. In RO2 they not only effectively made the models bigger with zoom (or gave everyone a scope) but they reduced sway, recoil and bullet dip as well as increased overall accuracy. Half damage on shots might make people need to be more accurate, but it was a bit random with the netcode and there was a balance issue with semis/smgs/bolts imo due to the overall changes and rather than be more accurate, people just used the reduced recoil/sway and sight twicthces to spam with auto's

[u-s-e-r]

Originally Posted by kalle

This can't be correct? Sounds get muffled at distance and sounds are different inside buildings, or are you saying that those effects pre-recorded and not realtime? I agreee that the sounds in RO1 was superior though.

Poorly worded. Yeah, there are some effects, but the effects are pretty limited and sound bad, not sure whether some of them are pre-recorded though.

[Cwivey]

Originally Posted by u-s-e-r

Poorly worded. Yeah, there are some effects, but the effects are pretty limited and sound bad, not sure whether some of them are pre-recorded though.

Audio effects are pre-recorded, but are dependant on the environment you are in. There's 12 different pre-sets for environments on a map that use the three (Four in some cases) re-verb sounds for weapons and explosions, environments are set by the mapper.
For each weapon or explosion, there is;

• Re-verb indoors Small Room
• Re-verb indoors Medium Room
• Re-verb indoors Large Room
• Distant Re-verb
• Distant sound
• The standard sound

Attenuation is handled real-time however; and, based on distance, one or more of the above will play.

I would say the sounds themselves are very well done, but with the way the environments are set on some maps, you may not actually hear some of the re-verb sounds and can't fully appreciate the work put into the sounds.




As for "that feeling". I still get it, and in some cases it's often more intense. But y'know, I generally play to enjoy the game rather than focusing on what could be added etc.

[Admiral Piett]

I have found that classic mode is a vast improvement over vanilla. Since I have never played RO1 I can't really say what you are missing for sure.

Although one of the biggest immersion problems for me right now is the lack-luster sound system. Everything from pistols to artillery lack bass and just a general feeling of 'punch'. Sound design is probably one of the most important, yet underrated aspects of a game. I have found that my brain reacts far faster and more naturally to sound, rather than visual queues. That is probably what is keeping me from experiencing more moments of actual fear and tension.

That all being said, classic mode has certainly improved the feel of the game significantly. The super quiet artillery is probably the big immersion breaker for me. Other than that, I get immersed in classic mode far more than I ever did in vanilla.

[Nezzer]

Originally Posted by Admiral Piett

I have found that classic mode is a vast improvement over vanilla. Since I have never played RO1 I can't really say what you are missing for sure.

Although one of the biggest immersion problems for me right now is the lack-luster sound system. Everything from pistols to artillery lack bass and just a general feeling of 'punch'. Sound design is probably one of the most important, yet underrated aspects of a game. I have found that my brain reacts far faster and more naturally to sound, rather than visual queues. That is probably what is keeping me from experiencing more moments of actual fear and tension.

That all being said, classic mode has certainly improved the feel of the game significantly. The super quiet artillery is probably the big immersion breaker for me. Other than that, I get immersed in classic mode far more than I ever did in vanilla.

Yeah, I agree with you. Everything is just too quiet and it looks like every sound has the same volume. I tweaked the ini files to set the max volume 4x higher, but artillery, tank cannon fire and explosions in general are still too quiet compared to regular gunfire. In RO1 artillery was much louder than gunfire and that's what made it really scary.

[red_one]

RO:OST had a sense of "I feel like I'm in a war movie" - shells exploding nearby, a squad of men beside you, half of them being sniped or mown down by a MG. Constantly running for cover and dying nine times, but making it on the tenth.

RO2 feels a lot more "every man for himself"/COD-ish.
Ugh.

[SQBsam]

Originally Posted by red_one

RO:OST had a sense of "I feel like I'm in a war movie" - shells exploding nearby, a squad of men beside you, half of them being sniped or mown down by a MG. Constantly running for cover and dying nine times, but making it on the tenth.

RO2 feels a lot more "every man for himself"/COD-ish.
Ugh.

Actually I think one of the key lines of advertising for Ost. was "Other games make you feel like you're in a war move, RO makes you feel like you're in a war."

I've lost that feeling with RO2, but I think TWI is getting close to getting it back. We do need those loud DH style bullet cracks though.

[Nik21]

1 Thing: You are afraid of dying in ROOst.

[Proud_God]

Originally Posted by red_one

RO2 feels a lot more "every man for himself"/COD-ish.

I agree.
And why do players feel that way?
Because they can't see their teammates half as well as in RO1.
And why can't they see their teammates as well?
Because their FOV is very low most of the time.
And why is their FOV low most of the time?
Because zoom, that's why.

In order to have teamwork, you need to see your teammates easily, and be aware of your direct surroundings.