Normal/Relaxed Realism Experiment

[Krobar]

Originally Posted by Moskeeto

I'm referring to this post made on the official steam group: http://steamcommunity.com/games/RO2/...72279471827700
According to that post, it'll be on the TWB's New Glory server.

Oh, and I thought they were just starting on this mode the other day. LOL maybe shows how easy it is to make one of these "modern" shooters.

[hekuball]

After all this nonsense any betting man would happily stake the shirt off his back on there never being an ro sequel again (not by TWI anyway).

[Yoshiro]

Originally Posted by melipone

Thanks . I think this is partly why it might seem there are fewer people with certain opinions than there may seem to TWI (0.01% etc)..as long as someone represents my view I won't necessarily post my version. Grobut often puts my views over better than I do .

For every poster there may be hundreds who agree with it and don't necessarily post it themselves

And that is fine. Just remember that it is the same for those with different views as well, and often those who like something as is do not post at all. It isn't that we don't value the feedback and criticism in the forums. It is one of the most valuable things to us. We just can't immediately take action on it.

[Yoshiro]

Originally Posted by Krobar

Oh, and I thought they were just starting on this mode the other day. LOL maybe shows how easy it is to make one of these "modern" shooters.

A very rough version was put together in a single weekend in a coders spare time. This is just to see if it has any traction and is worth pursuing and putting more time and effort into.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

And that is fine. Just remember that it is the same for those with different views as well, and often those who like something as is do not post at all. It isn't that we don't value the feedback and criticism in the forums. It is one of the most valuable things to us. We just can't immediately take action on it.

That is true too, but I also imagine there are people who may not like something and don't bother posting at all because they may be used to companies not listening

[Krobar]

Originally Posted by hekuball

After all this nonsense any betting man would happily stake the shirt off his back on there never being an ro sequel again (not by TWI anyway).

I would say something Cold Warish would be a good idea for their next military shooter (if they are to make one). Hopefully they can test the game extensively before release with the oh so small forum community and HOPEFULLY they will consider what modes they had to implement in RO2 and apply it in the future.

But it really depends on the market in a few years though. But TW, no matter how large you get, remember where you started and who helped you move up to wherever you make it to.

Back on topic: I still can't believe this "action" mode was made either extremely quickly or right under our noses. I'm anxious to test it (maybe just for shiggles) but I did tell my unit, who didn't favor the game for undisclosed reasons (maybe pace? maybe it was too different?), that this was happening, although I doubt more than 1 or 2 of them (out of maybe 15 who have the game) will download the beta for the premier.

[hekuball]

ok maybe ive missed it. Nothing but Gumrak on twbnew glory beta server, shame that.

[Moskeeto]

Originally Posted by hekuball

ok maybe ive missed it. Nothing but Gumrak on twbnew glory beta server, shame that.

Nope! It should start in about 20 minutes!

[Krobar]

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

A very rough version was put together in a single weekend in a coders spare time. This is just to see if it has any traction and is worth pursuing and putting more time and effort into.

I'm sorry if I offend but I find this probably funnier than it really is. But I guess we'll see soon how it goes.

Oh and kudos to you, Yoshiro, for keeping up so thoroughly with this thread.

[hekuball]

having just come back from playing the first iteration, its kind of crazy, not like ro at all. Full speed, infinite stamina, crosshairs (thought they're of minimal use in the game).

To me, as i said in-game, if i wanted this style of gameplay i'd buy mw3 cos thats about the pace of it. It was kind of fun but with the "reality" elements still in place and the gritty surroundings, it really started to have a kind of cognitive dissonance effect on me in this mode, it was very jarring after a while.
but worth testing nonetheless.

[melipone]

Been playing action mode for about 40 mins or so. Its actually much better than I expected. The guns actually recoil with recoil patterns rather than just spray out in a cone, and you still use iron sights a whole lot of the time

I wouldn't really change much about the action mode now. If we must have one, that is a pretty good way to do it imo. I wouldn't mind seeing a 1 life objective type mode for it, like CS bomb/defuse but more RO style

The bolt didn't really feel strong enough with the reduced damage and suppression all the time

Some things it highlights though with lower damage is the delay before you hear a hit register with the hit sound, and the general delay for reg. I was at 140 ping or so though.

I still hate that I have to use toggles for iron sights and crouch..and I noticed a lot of bugs that won't fly for a free weekend release. I wrote some down:

-Bandaging animation bug..you will be bandaging but you get no indication to show what you're doing sometimes
-Lighting must be rebuilt or something at the top left
-Automatic weapon pickup when you walk over it. Happened with an MG at a bad time
-went to cover mode when I didn't really want to (bandage)
-went "out of bounds" and got a very short time to move back again, and since the screen goes so dark you might not see the warning
-can't really tell how much to lead the target due to ping
-AVT is selected as default rather than ppsh, and it might not be a good idea for newbies to get that weapon as default

[Rak]

That was actually some public fun, RO2 definitely reached it's potential as a simple fast paced shooter.

I now understand how our constant nagging kept RO2 from reaching this potential and pushed it into the wrong "realistic" direction. Slap this a 15$ tag and this will be the perfect bargain bin game.

I'm dead serious. With the hands of our glorius developers RO2 has finally found it's true identity. The wait for a "RO1 sequel" was just an illusion.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I noticed the one mg bug I reported.

I will say the crosshairs weren't as bad as I thought, but I still didn't like them.

Overall it just felt too much like those mainstream titles I can't stand. It did nothing for me and I felt like some drone.

Wow I must have been blind to miss this thread.

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

...which would get implemented in the 'Normal' relaxed realism mode...

"Normal mode"? Since when has relaxed realism been considered as the game's "normal"? IIRC, relaxed realism was a gimmick sub-mode made to get the COD/arcade game players interested in this thing and now this subservient mode is now considered as the game's "normal" standard? So what, now the other modes are marginalized, 3rd-rate, "abnormal" sub-modes for the fringe .001% rabble who primarily bought this game thinking that it would be a sequal to RO I by having "streamlined realism that delivers an unrivalled tactical shooter experience"?

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

• Addition of a crosshair
• Removal of free-aim
• Reduced player damage

What is this 1998 or something? Bring out these archaic dated features while we wait for Y2K. Whoever is responsible for this crap mode is clearly and obviously out of touch with the RO community that bought, populated, played, modded, and enjoyed Red Orchestra 1 throughout all these long years. You know what? I dare you to add a grenade indicator. Remove weapon bullet drop/tank shell drop and replace all tank optic reticles with a big crosshair with x10 zooming ability. Give us auto-reloading weapons. Add the "Killing Spree, Godlike, First-blood" voice effects in as well. Make sure its the female voice though.

Originally Posted by Oliver

This game is suppose to be realistic in terms of gameplay

You mean the sub-mode for the .001% "abnormal" rabble is supposed to be realistic but not the mainstream "normal" mode for the primary audience.

Originally Posted by tixhal

I can't understand why people who only want to play classic or realism complain about the relaxed mode becoming more arcade.

Because according to the OP it is the "normal" mode thats becoming arcade.

Originally Posted by esh325

many realistic games have had crosshairs

Then they are not as realistic as they claim to be.

Originally Posted by Wilsonam

Killing Floor would kill Tripwire Interactive. And without the success of THAT experiment, there would be no RO2

From the way RO II flopped and KF succeeded you should consider abandoning WW2 and concentrating on making KF type games.

Originally Posted by melipone

The last thing we need is people coming to RO2 and thinking that that is normal RO style gameplay. How is that a normal version of anything even remotely RO style gameplay?

Big +1 for you sir.

Originally Posted by LastSaintMan

Tripwire trying to kill RO2 since release

It seems like deliberate sabotaging to induce RO II's slow painful death at this point.

Originally Posted by Fishsticks

That's why there are 3 modes being tweaked and worked on.

Complete waste of effort that is balkanizing the game. There should have been one and only one mode for Multiplayer: Realism. Singleplayer should have consisted of an introduction "training mode" or a Red Orchestra for Dummies scripted player training mode.

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

is that the notion of the mode still being called Normal/Relaxed Realism isn't well liked. Got it. Brainstorming new names now.

The fact that you people considered/labeled it "normal mode" in the OP and now flip-flopped that quickly reveals that your game has an identity crisis, your leadership person is very lacking, and that you are out of touch with the realism community, most of whom do not want your new "features".

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Yeah, we don't need no stinking mantling, bullet penetration, sight adjustment

Yeah, but RO I had all these things. Mantling in DH that was never made standard, bullet penetration in the RMF mod that was never made standard, and sight adjustment on the Panzerfaust 60 or PIAT that was never expanded upon to other weapons.

Originally Posted by melipone

crosshair/free aim in a mode is like a foot in the door for more un-RO changes.

The "foot in the door" was way back when rifle auto-bolting or the MkB 42 was announced.

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

Even 500 players in game at any given time means there are thousands of unique players who have played that day.

Delusions of grandeur.






You know what? I am done with this. I bought this game, got disillusioned by its substandardness (especially in tanking), got a refund, stuck around these forums waiting and waiting and waiting for "improvements" (especially tanking) in order to possibly repurchase this....but now what is the point? To play with 3rd-rate tanks or to play "normal mode" for some 5 odd years while "abnormal mode" withers and dies. No thanks. Devs/Moderators please close this profile/forum account. A pox on your game, the devs, the is2 and Auf Wiedersehen to everyone else.

[melipone]

The thing with action mode is a lot of the changes made to RO2 actually compliment that game style. If you just run around looking for frags and stuff then bandaging isn't really a bad mechanic. I imagine I will be playing Classic mode but might dabble in some action too..I like the extremes 1 way or the other as long as it still requires some skill from the player. Just don't play action mode like its a ro style realism game. The mixture of realism and arcade just didn't work for me in original realism mode

BTW I really liked the native voices as default (unless i changed that in options). It really adds to the game imo. The speeches from the commander at the start could be written in text tho I suppose

[Crusher]

Tried the action mode, didn't like it. Simple as that.

[Floyd]

John Chambers (of Cisco) was on Charlie Rose last night. I think all budding entrepreneurs (of which the forums are full of ) should find the segment and watch it. One of the the key points that Chambers kept reiterating was the need for a company to 'reinvent' itself every 5 to 6 years. Quite an interesting interview...(But then Chambers is the master of the 'interview'.)

I just got off the server after two rounds of..now get this....the new mode with crosshairs, Firefight AND Apartments.... And I had my beloved Mosin.

And you know, it really wasn't that bad. Not something I'd play regularly, but to kill a few minutes and for a quick shoot-em-up, it was fun. And I'd much rather support TW and play some form of RO than have to buy CoD or BF. Even with my bolt and my bayonet, I still managed to take out more than most. I can definitely see how a casual gamer coming from CoD might enjoy that. And then he may be tempted to try other modes as well. You've got to get them in the door. If they remain standing on the street peering in the window, they're not doing any of us any good.

And the server performance was excellent. I had no trouble with ping or having to lead shots. (Of course my ping was sub-100). The only thing I experienced was the occasional 'hitch' where I missed a few frames (like perhaps a sound or texture were being loaded). But those were few and far between.


<my rant for the day>
I'm sorry long time players feel so butt-hurt and betrayed. I, too, was dis-appointed with the initial release. I was more dis-appointed with the performance issues than anything else. [And then the incessant adolescent type of complaining and bit*hing (ala FMR's post above. Not the constructive criticism) that continued in the servers just killed any chance of enjoyment for me.] I understand the hurt, but I don't understand the grudges. Help make the game better by offering opinions. If TW's opinion differs from yours or if they fail to acknowledge yours, then so be it. You have done your part. Either continue to work with them by offering civil suggestions or man up and leave. The "you've ruined the game, I hope you choke" or "you should have listened to me. I've never been wrong." banter went out of style in the 5th grade....(and that was like 1962? or so for me. It remains as sophomoric today as it was back then.)
<end of my rant>

[Torio]

Played it.

I do not own any COD titles so I don't fully appreciate the slurs when I hear them, but if Action mode plays like COD I can see why millions enjoy it. I greatly prefer Realism mode, but this is still a lot of fun.

The reduced damage, reduced accuracy and faster gameplay all work rather well together. I actually had some RooSt flashbacks when I came under fire, took cover and was able to return fire without being one-shotted at the outset. Obviously you took some of the improvements in the other betas and applied them here. That's a good thing.

And the crosshairs? I hardly noticed them. They are hardly a substitute for iron sights and aside from the occasional snap shot at range, they did not factor much in my game. I rarely hip shoot. I do like how they expand and contract to simulate bullet spread. It's a nice touch, but overall I do not see crosshairs as useful enough to bother with, even in Action mode.

Hope that helps.

[Private Who?]

I do own several CoD titles(CoD, UO, CoD2, CoD4) and DoDS. Enjoyed them for what they were at the time. Past tense.

I don't really like the action mode. At all. Although I do see where and why TWI feels the need to do this, it is nowhere near what I want to be doing or playing. Which is fine, since apparently at some point I should be on a classic mode server somewhere.

I really DO NOT like the reduced accuracy and/or damage models, and I find the cross-hairs, while not obnoxious....they are still a significant distraction for me. But then again I am used to not having them and I have always liked it that way...at least since ROOst came out retail.

I guess that was always the appeal of RO to me...the grittiness of it. I was looking for a game that played slower, allowed more time for maneuver and thought. So with action mode...it just feels like for me some sort of regression. Yes it's still more realistic than DoDS.....but that's not really saying much is it? At any rate - good luck with it....as long as it truly doesn't get in the way of Classic mode I guess I'm fine with it.

[TrOOper]

Originally Posted by Field Marshal Rommel

You know what? I am done with this. I bought this game, got disillusioned by its substandardness (especially in tanking), got a refund, stuck around these forums waiting and waiting and waiting for "improvements" (especially tanking) in order to possibly repurchase this....but now what is the point? To play with 3rd-rate tanks or to play "normal mode" for some 5 odd years while "abnormal mode" withers and dies. No thanks. Devs/Moderators please close this profile/forum account. A pox on your game, the devs, the is2 and Auf Wiedersehen to everyone else.

Ok, you got a refund and dont play, yet we have to read your stupid rant about the game..Lets hope the moderators will follow your advice....good riddance!