Warning shot to World of Warcraft players (a.k.a. How tough is YOUR drywall?)

[[-project.rattus-]]

Originally Posted by Skip

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If we can blame guns for murder then I can blame mispelled words on my pencil.

Allthough we have another thread, i like to mention that Guns are built to kill, while pencils are not built to misspell

[{YBBS}Sage]

I've seen this.. a couple of months ago. Still good to look at.

The guy was an idiot. .44 mag was probably a revolver, and they're one of the easiest configurations to check to see if it's loaded.

There's no such thing as an accidental discharge. Only a negligent discharge.

As far as loading guns indoors... It doesn't matter if you load indoors or out, the biggest rule is muzzle control. Keep the damn thing pointed in a safe direction. Second is trigger control (finger AWAY from trigger until you shoot), but if you follow rule 1, breaking rule 2 and 3 (don't load it till you're ready to shoot) will most likely result in ringing ears and a red face.

For WickedPenguin: http://theboxotruth.com/

Check out when he uses the .45/70. Brick walls probably won't stop that (to say nothing of the aforementioned .50 BMG..). Also, rifle vs pistol for home defense, the pistols are still going to exit your home if you miss. Might as well go with a rifle if you need firepower because they're more accurate and powerful (just don't use FMJ or ball!). My first choice would be a shotgun, but you lose a lot of precision... and the rounds will still probably exit your house if you miss.

My home defense "arsenal" is an aluminum baseball bat and a semi-auto .22 rifle. Low-powered, I know, but put all 12 of those into someone, they aren't gonna want any more.

I'm all for letting people own guns. What I'd like to see, but anti-gun groups won't let it happen (this'll sound familiar...) is a gun-safety class requirement in schools. But just like another sensible educational program focused on safety, the antis aren't gonna let it happen.

[[5.SS]Strother]

If hes a hunter, surely he should be using shotguns or rifles.

He could be a collector, or he could be a target shooter. If he was a hunter he could use a wide range of weapons (of course no autos unless you are waaaaay out in the boonies and no one will ever know). People like to use various weapons for various reasons, people hunt with .44 magnums all the time, it is a whole different game than hunting with a rifle.

[Moz]

This is why RO needs penetration

[Zoring]

I really don't understand the American obsession with 'home protection', also why would you need more firepower in a 'home protection' weapon, are you expecting your home to be rushed by Kalishnakov wielding, body armour toting terrorists or something.

That said i am a gun-owner/collector and shoot frequently, but i've never thought of using them in a home defense situation. Be impossible to get to them in my gunsafe before someone got in my house anyhow.

As for the drywall, wow, idiot. First thing you do with any firearm you pick up is clear it, point it at the floor, drop the mag out, cycle the action, visually inspect the chamber. Make it a personal rule that when your handed a firearm NO MATTER WHAT you inspect the chamber, then you don't have this unbeliavbe situation

[Ron]

Originally Posted by {YBBS}Sage

.As far as loading guns indoors... It doesn't matter if you load indoors or out, the biggest rule is muzzle control..

Sorry but i strongly disagree i've been told many times by exprienced hunters that loading guns indoors is an absolute no no the problem is when your indoors you cant see where other people are due to the walls so you might accidently bring the gun barrel in line with people in the house without you knowing it and as demostrated in this story bullets dont respect boundaries.
Also its very easy to get distracted indoors and god forbid forget you loaded the gun with obvious dangers.
Then im looking at this from a hunters point of view i find the very idea of guns for protection in civilised societies absolutly ludricous.

[Jaesperson]

Originally Posted by Skip

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If we can blame guns for murder then I can blame mispelled words on my pencil.

this exactly phrase everyone uses to defend his "right to bear arms" is just another reason to not give every idiot a gun. if the people who killed people didnt have the gun, they wouldnt have killed. now you´ll say "if he really wanted to kill someone, he would have done it anyway (using a rock)!!" but as you can see, the guy in the first post is a total idiot, had guns and nearly killed someone without even knowing or bothering about that.

[Bolt]

Um.. What are those walls made of, anyway? That wouldn't happened in the type of houses i live in for sure: 20 cm thick concrete wall FTW!

[kempe]

Bolt, ive seen a 5.56mm weapon totaly shred a concrete block in about half a second :P

in my opinion the best home defence weapon if u must have one is a 12 gauge pumpaction. Load first 2 shots with light pellets (these will kill seriously injure at close range, however, will not carry far at all e.g into other rooms). the rest of the shells should then be 00 buckshot

[Murphy]

If you really need homedefense then learn how to throw knifes effectively. They don´t penetrate too much and they kill just as fine as a pistol. They can´t go off and kill wow-players either.
Plus, you have the cool attitude of a knife-thrower.
Ever seen "Desperado"?

[Colt .45 killer]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

He must have had wallhax...

no his wall hax was good, he just forgot to install his aimbot...

[Bolt]

Nah, in Chechnya, in big cities there are loads of such houses and believe me, bullets (at least, small arms) can't penetrate them.

[[CiA]Stiletto]

Ugh. What a moron.

YOU DO NOT RUN PRESENTATION DRILLS WITH A LOADED FIREARM! EVER!!!

[Explosioneer]

You have no idea how little a wall does to the path of a bullet until you've seen it.

I've seen a round from an AK47 that went through the outer wall of a house (with heavy wooden siding), through the kitchen wall, and through the cupboards, before burying itself in the opposite wall. And this was a hollow point round. (Guy using SKS for home defense, take note of this one).

I've fired a .50 BMG from 100m at a target that was stapled to a board, leaning against a thin sheet of aluminum, in front of a backstop of tractor tires, wood, and dirt. The round blew through all of it and buried itself somewhere in the dirt backstop.

Just a few months ago, a man in my town was shot in the face with a .22LR. A guy had walked by, spraying his house with bullets. A round from a lowly .22 pistol penetrated the wall and had enough force to wound a man inside.

I'm no expert, then I'm also no novice - But I assure you that you that you have no business using a rifle or other large caliber or high velocity weapon inside a house for any purpose, even self defense. Short of living alone/having all people in the home in 1 room and being in a rural setting, if you want home defense, use a pistol, and use the right ammunition.

Accidents like the one we're talking about are so anger inspiring because following the most basic rules of gun handling prevent them virtually 100% of the time. Every time some fool pulls a stunt like this, it reflects badly on those of us who have spent years safely enjoying shooting sports.
The standing rules (these among many others) with those I shoot with is to never, ever, leave a weapon loaded, always assume it is loaded, and leave the actions locked open on everything not in use. Once you're pointed down range, you can close your action and fire away. Which is another point of safety which is often overlooked - dont close the action on your weapon (this goes for autoloaders) unless you're pointed down range. If you've never had a slam-fire, be thankful. If you have, you'll know why this is just as important as all the other gun rules you were taught.

All I can say is use common sense. If you think, even a little, that what you're doing is stupid or dangerous, it almost certainly is. Some people...

[WickedPenguin]

Originally Posted by Explosioneer

I've seen a round from an AK47 that went through the outer wall of a house (with heavy wooden siding), through the kitchen wall, and through the cupboards, before burying itself in the opposite wall. And this was a hollow point round. (Guy using SKS for home defense, take note of this one).

That is EXACTLY why I said I would NEVER use my SKS for that purpose. Pistols are far better self-defense weapons.

Great post, btw.

Originally Posted by Zoring

I really don't understand the American obsession with 'home protection', also why would you need more firepower in a 'home protection' weapon, are you expecting your home to be rushed by Kalishnakov wielding, body armour toting terrorists or something.

Have you ever had a gun pulled on you in a public place? I have. Have you had your next door neighbor robbed at gunpoint literally in front of your own apartment door? I have. Have you ever been called by the alarm company at 3am to inspect your parents' house because the alarm got triggered while they're away on vacation? I have.

Do you need an assault rifle to contend with all that? No - that's overkill (though intimidation is a good thing ). A reliable, familiar pistol will do a much better job of keeping you and your family safe.

And don't forget rule number one: preserve life. If they want your wallet, your car, your money... just give it to them. Give it to them and walk away. Only use a weapon if someone's life (and not their property) is really in danger.

[Quietus]

Here's another tragic story involving guns (BB guns that is): When I was a kid my best friends friend (he was only an aquaintence of mine) apparently had a BB gun. It went off while he was looking at it apparently right in his eye, through the little hole in the eye socket and into his brain....he died.

For those who don't know:http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../frangible.htm

[[5.SS]Strother]

(though intimidation is a good thing ).

Actually some robbers might feel threatened by having a weapon pointed at them and some robbers when faced with the fight or flight response, fight. So you might actually be encouraging a bad situation to be worse with a more intimidating weapon. I think I'd choose to go with a knife/baseball bat/ or my bow. If someone sees my bow they will be like "LOLz what a noob like that scares me" and then I'll put a broadhead through their leg if it comes to that, or they will see it and be like "O NOES IT IS RAMBO" and they jump out the window.

[{YBBS}Sage]

Originally Posted by Ron

Sorry but i strongly disagree i've been told many times by exprienced hunters that loading guns indoors is an absolute no no the problem is when your indoors you cant see where other people are due to the walls so you might accidently bring the gun barrel in line with people in the house without you knowing it and as demostrated in this story bullets dont respect boundaries.
Also its very easy to get distracted indoors and god forbid forget you loaded the gun with obvious dangers.
Then im looking at this from a hunters point of view i find the very idea of guns for protection in civilised societies absolutly ludricous.

I'm not a hunter anymore, but I used to. Got a nice eight point trophy right by my computer. I'll load indoors if I'm keeping the gun for home-defense (I used to have a well-hidden loaded gun, but my neighborhood is MUCH safer now). Other than that, it's ONLY at the range or in the field. Besides, the "boundaries" thing is something that should be taught in gun safety class (should be a requirement in schools.) By "muzzle control" I don't mean point it away from the people you see. I mean point it away from EVERYBODY. If you're in an apartment building with neighbors under you, over you and around you, that means you don't mess with your guns at home. If you're in a house like me, that means keeping it pointed skyward.

I started keeping a rifle loaded and hidden but close-by after my wife told me that while she was home alone one day, someone tried coming in the back door. If the door hadn't have been locked, they'd have been inside. After that I loaded my Marlin .22 (hey, it's better than waving a stick, besides, it's semi-auto. Just put all 12 in their chest.) rifle and hid it where it was handy. I also hid a baseball bat in another spot. We've since moved to a neighborhood where I can leave my car running with the top down in the driveway and not even think twice.

Penguin: Screw the intimidation factor. I take aim at a person in a defense situation (ie: if I'm drawing a bead at an intruder at 3 AM) I'm not doing it to obtain submission or compliance. If he/she forces me to take aim, I'm firing. If I find an intruder in the middle of the night who's visibly armed, I'm not giving any warning, either. A chance to surrender or flee is a chance to fight back. (Some states frown on this. Oddly enough and fortunately for me, CA has "Castle Doctrine.")

The good thing is that thanks to people having/using guns for home-defense, America has a pretty low rate of break-ins happening while
the home is occupied.

[[5.SS]Strother]

The government should issue everyone some of those special police weapons that shoot nets and super sticky foam everywhere. But I could definantly see the kids getting their hands on those.

[{YBBS}Sage]

Originally Posted by [5.SS]Strother

The government should issue everyone some of those special police weapons that shoot nets and super sticky foam everywhere. But I could definantly see the kids getting their hands on those.

And having lots of fun with 'em!

Hell, I'd be out there with 'em!