Should squad leaders have a sidearm [Classic mode]

[Andrew Blake]

Currently the squad leaders in classic mode have just a bolt rifle and officer equipment. Having a sidearm would be nice too. That would make them more potent in close combat (where they should be, as they cap faster) and set them aside a little bit from normal rifleman.

[Minesweep]

Agree with everything you said. Maybe they could be given the TT-33 and leave the m1895 to the MGers and ATers or vice-versa because there is currently zero reason to use the m1895 aside from the novelty factor.

[Bashenka]

I want pistols for SL simply for the fact that using pistols is bad-***, and every time I see someone on the battlefield using a pistol, I am inclined to follow them until my eventual doom

[Darrosquall]

absolutely yes. And assist point for mark artillery choose by commander.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I believe they should have a sidearm, and probably access to a semi or smg.

[lods of emone]

Isn't it historically accurate for squad leaders to have semi-autos or SMGs?

[Comrade Kaizer]

Originally Posted by =GG= Mr Moe

I believe they should have a sidearm, and probably access to a semi or smg.

Agreed. I think they should adjust the overall semi-auto/SMG availability of all classes to accommodate Squad leaders preferably. Give them sidearms as well.

[Kerc Kasha]

Originally Posted by lods of emone

Isn't it historically accurate for squad leaders to have semi-autos or SMGs?

SMGs not really semi-autos. Semi-autos were typically given to a corporal or similar rank. Someone with enough training to maintain it while not busy giving orders to make use of it in combat.

[orlok_tzar]

hello all

Historically, lord knows what they carried at the particular map or battle, but in this game I'd like em to carry an smg or semi auto if they choose, or indeed the bolt rifle.

Mainly for the variety and to really differentiate them from the grunts.

A nod towards realism is nice, but after all it is a game.

*puts on anti flame suit*

rgds

LoK

[Crusher]

Just a rifle feels a bit little for a higher rank, I would like a pistol with it and/or an smg instead of a rifle.

[Private Who?]

Originally Posted by =gg= mr moe

i believe they should have a sidearm, and probably access to a semi or smg.

+1

[Zetsumei]

Personally I would probably in general wish to see squadleaders with a SMG or Bolt.

However in order to not have too many SMG's around I would like to see some automatic classes removed. And perhaps some squadleaders removed as well since per default there seem to be too many SL's for the amount of teammates.

[r5cya]

isn't the biggest reason sl's don't have the smg, is because we wanted better teamwork and complained the people were just taking the class for the smg?
that's why i thought they took it away. taking away an assault and giving squad leaders that weapon, will just result in what we were complaining about three months ago.

p.s. i love playing commander and squad leader and i really wish i had a smg, but to have someone who could care less about doing the job properly? i'll just be happy i'm armed at all, if i can still help win from the radio.

[Nikita]

Definitely not the semi-auto rifle. Then they're be 6 or so running around on the battlefield again. SVTs and G41s weren't anywhere near that common.

I'm conflicted between the two options. R5cya has a point that people often pick SL for the SMGs, and we certainly don't want to promote that behavior. That said, it is historically accurate for NCOs to carry the MP40 or PPSh, certainly in Stalingrad. Blind run and gun has also become less viable--though SMGs are still by far the dominant weapon on many RO2 maps.

In my opinion, the best option would be to:

--Reduce the number of squad leaders and squads, with no more than 2 or 3 per team

--Somehow, give the squad leader the same loadout of his squad. I.e. Assault Squad = SMG or semi-auto, Rifleman Squad = Bolt-action rifle. The bolt-action rifle would always be available as an option. This could perhaps be implemented via the loadout menu:

Squad Leader:
PPSh-41 or MP-40: 1 available
Mosin-Nagant 91/30 or k98: 2 available

This would keep the SMG/rifle ratio low and minimize adverse squad leader behavior, but it would better reflect what NCOs were generally given.

They should definitely have a pistol though.

EDIT: An alternative that splits the squad leader role:
Assault Squad Leader (1): PPSh/MP40, TT33/M1895/P38/C96, smoke nades, grenades, binoculars
Rifle Squad Leader (2): MN 91/30 or k98, TT33/M1895/P38/C96, smoke nades, grenades, binoculars

[lods of emone]

Isn't it said that engineers actually carried bolt action rifles and not SMGs? Makes sense to me. Making that accurate and giving SLs SMGs / SAs, while reducing the SL cap to 2 or 3 would solve the bolt:SMG/SA ratio.

Hell, I'm sure it would even be possible to implement a system that caps how many types of a weapon can be used within a specific class.

[Kerc Kasha]

Originally Posted by orlok_tzar

hello all

Historically, lord knows what they carried at the particular map or battle, but in this game I'd like em to carry an smg or semi auto if they choose, or indeed the bolt rifle.

Mainly for the variety and to really differentiate them from the grunts.

A nod towards realism is nice, but after all it is a game.

*puts on anti flame suit*

rgds

LoK

It's nothing to do with realism it's more done to lower the amount of automatics in the game. There is far too many automatic weapons in the current(non-beta) version off the game. The beta currently has it dead on as seeing a semi-auto rifle is now a rare occurrence rather than the bloody norm as it was at release.

Variety is for theme park games - the only semblance of balance between weapons that are portrayed realistically is to have realistic numbers of weapons available otherwise weapons like bolt-actions just seem pointless to even have in the game.

EDIT:
Another issue is that people would pick squad leader JUST for the gun and that's something that should NOT be catered for.

[PRAPOR]

In realistic way SLs should have SMGs but not bolts. And SL historically not had a sidearm, can only be captured.

[Andrew Blake]

Okay so most people want the SL to have a sidearm and some want a SMG too.

Nikita you have a good point it would be preferable to have some SMG's to the SL's. But they are supposed to be more of a half-support unit. Throwing smokes and getting in cap. Not act like a assault unit, which is what anyone would do with it if they had an smg.

In ro2 compared to ro1 we have more SL's but they only have 1 smoke each. This fixes mainly the god-awful that one dude would take the only SL class because it had an smg and not use it for the smokes.
-Bottom line many SL's are good.

Now some might have noticed I'm contradicting myself, wanting the SL to not attack much, but give them a sidearm.
Well the sidearm is kinda half way, they will function better in close combat but not that good. -But not as good a smg.
So they will have better chances to get to the cap and throw smokes where necessary.


A last thing, Minesweep mentioned type of sidearm. I didn't really put this up on the pool. But I am guessing most of you would want to only have the semi pistols with magazines?
That leaves the P38 and the TT33. That's no problem in itself, but the issue is the P38 it has currently lower damage than the TT33. -It has 40 (P38), while the TT33 has 50!

The sole reason they did that was because you have level up once to get the new pistol.

Currently:
m1895(40 damage) --> TT33 (50 damage)
P38 (40 damage) ----> C96 (50 damage)

I wish is that they give the P38 a fair damage, give it 50 damage too!

[Vyllis]

Yes for a SL sidearm.

isn't the biggest reason sl's don't have the smg, is because we wanted better teamwork and complained the people were just taking the class for the smg?
that's why i thought they took it away. taking away an assault and giving squad leaders that weapon, will just result in what we were complaining about three months ago

Exactly what i'm thinking about.

[marcinz]

Originally Posted by nikita

.............
In my opinion, the best option would be to:

--reduce the number of squad leaders and squads, with no more than 2 or 3 per team

--somehow, give the squad leader the same loadout of his squad. I.e. Assault squad = smg or semi-auto, rifleman squad = bolt-action rifle. The bolt-action rifle would always be available as an option. This could perhaps be implemented via the loadout menu:

Squad leader:
Ppsh-41 or mp-40: 1 available
mosin-nagant 91/30 or k98: 2 available

this would keep the smg/rifle ratio low and minimize adverse squad leader behavior, but it would better reflect what ncos were generally given.

They should definitely have a pistol though.

+1