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Better order interface and some mixed ideas

Lone Rebel

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 29, 2012
307
37
Italy
First of all, I'd like to greet everyone and to thank the devs for making this game.

Secondly, I go straight to my ideas (that may possibly already be around :p )

It's very hard for commander to tell, in the middle of the battle, what to do to each squad, and to manually select objectives for each squad\tank, especially when you need to move in buildings (station) or in non-marked spots (grain elevator costruction zone) or when moving in fast, possibily in future, big maps .

It's even harder for SL to issue orders, even with a microphone and to people actually understanding english (which, like mine, couldn't be always perfect) but this, I have to tell you, I like it this way. You could even remove the SL interface, except the "move here" command, and mark arty spot. No point to order each single soldier where to be and what to do. This is higly impractical, especially since the SL needs to fight in front line alongside his soldiers most of the time.

So, I propose an eagle eye view, sort of company of heroes subgame if you want (I saw nuclear dawn implemented something like that but haven't tried it personally) only for the commander, that actually "move" a squad exactly where he wants, and the markers should be always visible, to all the members of that squad. Maybe give this option only when at the radio.

Otherwise, a commander destiny is to call in arty and nothing else, no direct control over operations, and that's a pity. Higly unrealistic, and most important, it seriously prevent cooperative playin and most importantly, fun.

Other "minor" ideas:

1 - Remove the team chat as it is now, and replace it with something like vietcong multyplayer chat, where the other players voices are perfectly loud when near, and fade away the far you get from them. Leave the teamchat between commander and SLs only (sort of radio)

2 - Make AT guns wall piercing (if they could pierce 15 or so mm of steel, I guess a brick wall should not be a problem) and fix the MG piercing ability, especially at range. And, since you are at it, add the ability to resupply AT guns for soldiers, it's a pain in the *** to run back and forth from the ammo stash every tank you meet.:(

3 - Introduce Shtraf battalions. They were penal battalions, used as cannon fodder or suicide attacks, or decoys... I won't bother you with too many details, but among their role there was: minefield clearing (running into it) decoys (with a wooden rifle, only to absorb enemy fire) suicide charge (to drain enemy ammo supply) etc etc. What? you say nobody wants to be a Shtraf soldier? That's why that class is only for TKers. If you TK X times without being forgiven, you get demoted do Shtraf soldier for X respawns (where X is a server setting) and you go around with a fake wooden rifle, only able to do melee attacks. That way, TKers cannot get too boring and desruptive, maybe learns some manners, and still are able to do something useful (abosrbing enemy fire) If you want to prevent further TKing, just make friendly immune to the wooden rifle attacks ;) Should work perfect and adds to realism\immersion. Or just give them an ammo clip for the mosin, and nothing else, like in "Enemy at the gates" :eek: Before you ask, yes, there was even german penal battalions (even the vast majority were russians)
Also, they could be killed by commissars freely if not following orders, so i guess their teamkill by SL should be allowed. Think about it, only RO can have this feature in an historical contest, and it can really work.

4 - Not so sure about this, but, to remove some not wanted campers (like having half team "sniping" on 4th floor of the grain elevator when the commander specifically calls for ppl in cap down below) add the ability for the commander (or the map maker maybe) to place "death zones" for non supporting class (not for MG, AT and snipers then) This should literally force the camping rifleman wannabe snipers to get in first line and follow SL orders.

4a - An even simpler idea could be this: place a fixed distance between SL and his soldiers. When out of that distance, soldier get the "you are leaving the combat area" and dies in.... 10 seconds? This should keep the squads toghether and make ppl follow orders (also, ppl dying for not following orders, could become shtraf soldiers as punishment :D )

5 - Give honor level more importance and totally rework the lvl system, weapon upgrade etc ect. It kills the game, really. Your target is NOT 11 yo console gamers. I understand all the weapons should be available, but make it possible for the server to set more restrictions, or make them map-related.

6 - In general, make possible for the modder to set a vast amout of variables with ease, to not hinder further projects. Make firendly modular add-ons possible (like bethesda's fallout\olbivion etc etc) and try to refine at its best the editor, even before refining the game itself maybe. With a running, friendly and powerful editor, any change needed could be made, with time, by modders. Dunno if it crash with your marketing politic or something but...

Sorry if I posted something already said, but this forum is huge, and I'm new and too lazy to read everything in a day :p

Thanks again for doing this game. I can say that, once more material (mods, veichles, balancing, fixing etc etc) gets out, this could really be the only and best tactical shooter simulator about WWII, for a loong time. And I know what I'm saying, been playing for 25 years now :IS2:
 
Thanks for your input and ideas, I haven't heard ideas going in this direction before, and they are certainly interesting.

Regarding your main point, about eagle-eye view, I though that maybe having a recon plane overhead could provide... photos or something to the commander, this would fit in more with the realistic nature of the game, although to be honest my preferred system would be that the plane calls out co-ords of groups based on priority (risk they present to friendly units), this would probably be too hard to code however. Also, for something like this to work there needs to be much more incentive to work as a squad and move SLOWLY, the pace of RO has increased dramatically with all these new features, and I hope that with RO classic mode the pace will come back down again.

Regarding your minor points:

1 - Remove the team chat as it is now, and replace it with something like vietcong multyplayer chat, where the other players voices are perfectly loud when near, and fade away the far you get from them. Leave the teamchat between commander and SLs only (sort of radio)

There was a "local chat" mode in RO-ost that did just this, however it was not used as it is a nuisance and a hindrance. For this to work I think pace would have to be reduced dramatically, as in ARMA2.

2 - Make AT guns wall piercing (if they could pierce 15 or so mm of steel, I guess a brick wall should not be a problem) and fix the MG piercing ability, especially at range. And, since you are at it, add the ability to resupply AT guns for soldiers, it's a pain in the *** to run back and forth from the ammo stash every tank you meet.:(

I don't have any experience of this, sorry.


3 - Introduce Shtraf battalions. They were penal battalions, used as cannon fodder or suicide attacks, or decoys... I won't bother you with too many details, but among their role there was: minefield clearing (running into it) decoys (with a wooden rifle, only to absorb enemy fire) suicide charge (to drain enemy ammo supply) etc etc. What? you say nobody wants to be a Shtraf soldier? That's why that class is only for TKers. If you TK X times without being forgiven, you get demoted do Shtraf soldier for X respawns (where X is a server setting) and you go around with a fake wooden rifle, only able to do melee attacks. That way, TKers cannot get too boring and desruptive, maybe learns some manners, and still are able to do something useful (abosrbing enemy fire) If you want to prevent further TKing, just make friendly immune to the wooden rifle attacks ;) Should work perfect and adds to realism\immersion. Or just give them an ammo clip for the mosin, and nothing else, like in "Enemy at the gates" :eek: Before you ask, yes, there was even german penal battalions (even the vast majority were russians)
Also, they could be killed by commissars freely if not following orders, so i guess their teamkill by SL should be allowed. Think about it, only RO can have this feature in an historical contest, and it can really work.

Don't think this could really work, requires games to be longer and is too punishing. People generally just want to play.

4 - Not so sure about this, but, to remove some not wanted campers (like having half team "sniping" on 4th floor of the grain elevator when the commander specifically calls for ppl in cap down below) add the ability for the commander (or the map maker maybe) to place "death zones" for non supporting class (not for MG, AT and snipers then) This should literally force the camping rifleman wannabe snipers to get in first line and follow SL orders.

A camper may get kills, but will lose rounds. If they do not care for victories then they are not a team player, no matter if they camp or not, they will not participate and contribute towards victory.

4a - An even simpler idea could be this: place a fixed distance between SL and his soldiers. When out of that distance, soldier get the "you are leaving the combat area" and dies in.... 10 seconds? This should keep the squads toghether and make ppl follow orders (also, ppl dying for not following orders, could become shtraf soldiers as punishment :D )

-

5 - Give honor level more importance and totally rework the lvl system, weapon upgrade etc ect. It kills the game, really. Your target is NOT 11 yo console gamers. I understand all the weapons should be available, but make it possible for the server to set more restrictions, or make them map-related.

In order to do this, perhaps a BF2 system should be implemented, using score per minute/ objectives per minute rather than total score, to make sure skill, and not time, is rewarded.

6 - In general, make possible for the modder to set a vast amout of variables with ease, to not hinder further projects. Make firendly modular add-ons possible (like bethesda's fallout\olbivion etc etc) and try to refine at its best the editor, even before refining the game itself maybe. With a running, friendly and powerful editor, any change needed could be made, with time, by modders. Dunno if it crash with your marketing politic or something but...

Haven't used the editor myself, but it seemed alright. I don't really have enough experience to comment, sorry.

-Sam
 
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I agree that the pace is too much (arcade style) in Ro2. But it fits imo in some settings. If you have to storm a building, like station, you need to do it fast, you cannot wait and organize flanking on every single corner.

The recon plane photo idea is very good btw, much better than it is actually. Only commander should know enemy position, movements, etc etc, not everyone. Maybe, a simpler solution could be to allow commander to enter spectator-roaming mode when at the radio, and from there place markers for the varous squads.

Didn't knew about the local chat in the 1st Ro, imo it is a very good thing to have, especially if you want realism, teamwork, coordination... guess maybe it's just me pretending too much?

About sthraf troops, why it should make the game longer? The time, the reinf, are the same, so basically it doesn't change in that way. It makes noob and tkers learn some manners and adds to the game immersion. Could also be a commander force respawn option, like respawning conscripts costs less tickets than normal. But this should work only when russian got more players than the germans, swarm like. On a 1:1 basis, it actually weaken the russians :confused:

About forcing player to stick to their squad leaders, imo, is a necessity to teach people how to play in a team. You cannot wait for people to mature and maybe learn teamwork and discipline... you have to force them! But, if you can think about a better way, I'm all ears :)

Regarding the honor level, I meant (its gonna be a looong post if I elaborate in details) class access related to honor for example. A lot slower honor gain. Honor loss with battle loss. Honor loss on Tk. Honor loss on not complying to orders, etc etc... As it is, everyon would be lvl 99 in no time, and honor functionality drops to zero... even if a reset could always be made.

Weapons upgrades are discussed in so many other topics that would be pointless to do that here. My main point is that some weapons\upgrades are almost sci-fi, plus, other are really ridiculous... c'mon, bayonets aren't an upgrade, it is a common soldier outfit since... well, a long time anyway :p

Class progression is totally useless. I mean... carry more ammo? sway reduction? faster aiming? Those are thing I, personally, in REAL LIFE should achieve, with EXPERIENCE for playing the game. Not an in-game help for kids to get better and not feeling losers... I mastered several games in my life, and I'm proud of it, because it was mine progression, not a class, prescripted one... Try to finish the old "Shinoby" with a single coin, and then you'll understand what I mean. Good luck btw, took me 4 years when i was a kid :D
 
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Oh well, seems my "waiting for approval post" got lost, so i give it another try...

Regarding your points (btw, thanks for dropping by a line ;) )

The recon photos are a great idea (even if a fax for commander would be awful to view... but i still think it's a good idea to have some b\w photos from recon on groups of enemyes, or snipers position, etc etc. And it shouldn't be too accurate, maybe it could be related to commander veterancy, getting better (but never perfect) as it levels up. I understand that integrating a CoH interface would be next to impossible and really time consuming, but please, keep it in mind for the next generation ro then:cool: It could, maybe, be replaced with the ability for the commander, to, while at radio, enter a kind of spectator mode (would be nice to hide the enemies while in this mode) and to move really fast around the map to place marks for the other squad. That should be rather easy to do, and still meet the target.

1) Local chat is a must, imo, for realism. Adding it is not synonimous with must use it. It could be a server setting, so realism server could activate it, while arcade ones could use the team chat.

2) I can almost guarantee (from what a i read) that AT guns should penetrate walls, even brick\concrete walls. Let's make it just one in the game. And also, could easily destroy\damage covers (they were used against bunkers when turned next to useless against tanks) They also retain the AT role against light\medium tanks, armored cars, HT, etc etc. To not make it a wallhack weapon of some sort, it could be introduced a deflection angle, meaning that, once the bullet pierce the wall, it goes the other side with enough kill power, but it's trajectory is changed a bit, let's say... 20-30
 
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