Is there any chance of russian army being added to this mod?

[pancho688]

It would be intresting to see maybe a few maps with russian vs japanese forces based around the soviet invasion of Manchuria, any chance of this happening RS team?

[Nestor Makhno]

Not by us, I wouldn't have thought.

Any modders who are keen are more than welcome to give Khalkin Gol a go, though.

[Hilldog]

Russian army vs the Japanese army sounds really awesome actually, plus the fact that they're both very similar so the balance would feel almost perfect.

[Andrew Blake]

Nothing against it, but it would play too much like germans vs allies and we already have that.

[Bashenka]

anything to switch things up is always great. Plus the maps would need to show a completely new setting, so it would feel very different.

[Nikita]

Originally Posted by pancho688

It would be intresting to see maybe a few maps with russian vs japanese forces based around the soviet invasion of Manchuria, any chance of this happening RS team?

Was just reading a paper on this subject:

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...z3/glantz3.asp

Jesus Christ... you take the veterans who survived the slaughter of the war against the Germany, the heavy tanks, saturation artillery, and assault tactics designed to break a Wehrmacht line, and apply them along with strategic initiative, daring, and a bold operational plan, and you get one of the most massive curbstomps in scale in military history. Many Japanese units were so caught by surprise and without mobility that they never saw action before the surrender.

As for those who did--you almost gotta pity the poor Japanese with only rifles, light tanks, and 37mm guns going up against veteran troops, T34-85s, Katyushas, IS2s, IL-2s, even ISU-152s, and heavy artillery concentrations unlike anything they'd ever faced...

Just as a really rough, probably erroneous estimate, a Type 97 Chi-Ha might have about 34mm of armor adding the front and rear armor together. The IS-2's main gun is theoretically capable of piercing 160mm of armor--which, without taking slope, range, armor hardness, equipment inside the tank, deflection, etc, is theoretically equivalent to penetrating FIVE Type 97s lined up front to back, with the round traveling straight through the first FOUR and still penetrating the fifth.

...but then you remember that they'd been having a relatively easy time against the lightly-armed, poorly-trained, badly-led Chinese for about fourteen years... what goes around, comes around.

EDIT: Seems more and more like an utter impossibility to balance... This is what Glantz has to say on Russian assault company loadouts: "Each soldier carried an automatic weapon with three hundred rounds, a knife, and six to eight hand grenades." That automatic weapon, clearly, is a PPSh-41. The rest of the platoon? Machine guns, mortars, satchel charges, and flamethrowers. Often a light gun attached for close-in fire support.
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...Images/023.jpg

[Alexander Ostmann]

Originally Posted by Hilldog

Russian army vs the Japanese army sounds really awesome actually, plus the fact that they're both very similar so the balance would feel almost perfect.

Very similar? The Soviets would absolutely steamroll the Japanese. The two armies aren't even on the same level.

[Bluehawk]

Rifleman to rifleman, they're about even maybe. But the problem is the Japanese have absolutely no equivalent to the sub-machine gun as it was deployed by the Soviets, neither on company level nor in the specialized all-SMG units fielded late in the war. Japanese armour is also completely outclassed by the later war medium and heavy tanks. The IJA even tried using regimental artillery in direct fire against Soviet armour with minimal effect.

The mod would have to take liberties with the class loadouts, or be very selective about which skirmishes it wants to portray in its list of maps.

[Admiral Piett]

Originally Posted by Nikita

Was just reading a paper on this subject:

<a href="http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/resources/csi/glantz3/glantz3.asp" target="_blank">http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...z3/glantz3.asp

Jesus Christ... you take the veterans who survived the slaughter of the war against the Germany, the heavy tanks, saturation artillery, and assault tactics designed to break a Wehrmacht line, and apply them along with strategic initiative, daring, and a bold operational plan, and you get one of the most massive curbstomps in scale in military history. Many Japanese units were so caught by surprise and without mobility that they never saw action before the surrender.

As for those who did--you almost gotta pity the poor Japanese with only rifles, light tanks, and 37mm guns going up against veteran troops, T34-85s, Katyushas, IS2s, IL-2s, even ISU-152s, and heavy artillery concentrations unlike anything they'd ever faced...

Just as a really rough, probably erroneous estimate, a Type 97 Chi-Ha might have about 34mm of armor adding the front and rear armor together. The IS-2's main gun is theoretically capable of piercing 160mm of armor--which, without taking slope, range, armor hardness, equipment inside the tank, deflection, etc, is theoretically equivalent to penetrating FIVE Type 97s lined up front to back, with the round traveling straight through the first FOUR and still penetrating the fifth.

...but then you remember that they'd been having a relatively easy time against the lightly-armed, poorly-trained, badly-led Chinese for about fourteen years... what goes around, comes around.

EDIT: Seems more and more like an utter impossibility to balance... This is what Glantz has to say on Russian assault company loadouts: "Each soldier carried an automatic weapon with three hundred rounds, a knife, and six to eight hand grenades." That automatic weapon, clearly, is a PPSh-41.
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...Images/023.jpg

Wow, I didn't know David Glantz did a paper on the Soviet invasion of Manchuria. I will have to read that later.

[echutter]

Originally Posted by Alexander Ostmann

Very similar? The Soviets would absolutely steamroll the Japanese. The two armies aren't even on the same level.

This would be totally depending on the terrain. In Manchuria, the Japenese would get steamrolled like they were nothing though.

[Nikita]

Originally Posted by echutter

This would be totally depending on the terrain. In Manchuria, the Japenese would get steamrolled like they were nothing though.

Gobi Desert, Northern wetlands, rivers, fortified hill towns, cities, grasslands...

There was adverse terrain... it just barely slowed the Russians down.

Absolutely crazy. The Russians overestimated the Japanese in their strategic planning. The Japanese underestimated (!) the Russians. Carnage was the only possible result.

[Ts4EVER]

FH1 had a map based on that in one of its early versions, which was legendary for being absolutely unwinnable for the japanese

[Giuliano]

Personally, I'd rather see the Chinese army. I don't think I've ever seen any games cover the sino-japanese war.

[Vapid]

You know, I'd love a proper WW2 naval sim... I don't mean like Silent Hunter (?) but something along the lines of an MMORPG with players selecting a specific role on either side (gunnery officer, naval scout pilot, an officer in charge of an aircraft carrier's flight missions, etc.) and with historically accurate ships.

Germany vs. Britain would make the most sense (early-mid war years in the North Atlantic) - obviously Italy, Japan and the United States are possibilities but you have to take balance into consideration.

Imagine ~20 people playing online in real-time as the crew of the Duke of York whilst it's chasing the Scharnhorst crewed by another set of players.

I mean I know it's not everyone's thing (less mainstream than running around with an SMG in war-torn ruins) but in my head it's awesome.

(Sorry to go off-topic, but for some reason the Japan-Russia debate made me think of this as it's something I'd been pondering for a long time... I wonder if it's ever been attempted on a reasonable scale)

[Cannabysmal]

To each their own but that sounds tremendously boring to me=p Then again I love flight sims and many can't stand those!

[Vapid]

Originally Posted by Cannabysmal

To each their own but that sounds tremendously boring to me=p

Probably why it's never been done. I think it'd be good though.

[Pa++on]

Well I'm in the navy and to be honest, a game based around what we do would suck hard.

Anything fun to do in the navy sucks in a video game. Welding in real life is cool. In a video game? No.

[luciferintears]

i'd be interested in seeing this. wouldnt mind moding RS to accommodate russians too if i had more time.

BTW, will RS be moddable?

[Pa++on]

I'd hope so. Having a Pacific War setting also for more messing around with mechanics and such. I'm actually waiting for this so I can try my hand at messing with level design. The few Pacific War games I've played have been so much fun when done right. I remember hiding in the bushes in MoH: Pacific Assault, popping out with a bayonet or a tommygun at the most opportune time. You can't do that in most FPSes.

[Tokugawa77]

Well to be fair the best japanese units were withdrawn to protect the home islands, and they did not forsee that the Soviets would break the non-aggression pact. I am among those who beleive that it was the soviet invasion rather than the atomic bombs that brought about the surrender.

But I'd rather see some action in China. It is such an underrepresented portion fo WW2; China lost more soldiers and civilians than any other country in the entire war, and Japan suffered many more casualties fighting the Chinese than fighting the Allies. In retrospect, the battles in the pacific theater itself were actually rather small battles, rarely involving more than 100,000 men on each side. Compare that to the Battle of Shanghai in 1937 which involved almost a million soldiers.