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America NDAA... heading to Germany 1934

i76

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 27, 2011
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Australia
Obama signed the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) on the 1st January 2012

The whole world is now considered a battlefield, anyone worldwide including US citizens can be arrested without charge or due process (just under suspicion of terrorism, supporting terrorism "or associated forces" rather broad definition) detained indefinitely (or till the end of hostilities ie when the war on terrorism is over... never) and/or assassinated, this by the military or police.

The NDAA, SOPA and all the 'executive orders' now in affect in America is exactly the kind of thing Nazi Germany went through.

Google it, YouTube it... its decent into madness.
 
It can happen anywhere and everywhere! Do not be fooled by patriotism!

True, and excessive patriotism is only the first step, something which the US has always been prone to.

When I went to school we were shown this, which illustrates that it can happen anywhere:
Cults: The Wave
Should be standard curriculum everywhere.

Still, people should stop comparing stuff like this to Nazi Germany, it is vastly different. But it could easily get there unless people are careful and use their democratic right to protest against what they disagree with.

The biggest problem in the US as I see it is the huge difference in income between the richest and poorest, and the growing mixing of politics and big business interests, which is extremely scary.

National Socialism was special in that it actually wanted all citizens to have the same rights in the "Volksgemeinschaft" - as long as they were considered *German* that is. This obviously did not include Jews, and other "un-German" elements like Communists, Socialists, Roma, homosexuals, mentally ill etc etc.
 
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The way I see it they're just legalizing what's already been done by governments worldwide for all of history. Nothing new here, except on paper.

[url]http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/06/new-bill-known-as-enemy-expatriation-act-would-allow-government-to-strip-citizenship-without-conviction/[/URL]

Congress is considering HR 3166 and S. 1698 also known as the Enemy Expatriation Act, sponsored by Joe Lieberman (I-CT) and Charles Dent (R-PA). This bill would give the US government the power to strip Americans of their citizenship without being convicted of being
 
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It can happen anywhere and everywhere! Do not be fooled by patriotism!
With the way our political system works, there will never be anyone as radical as Hitler elected to president. And EVEN if it somehow did happen, congress wouldn't let any crap he wrote in bills pass. It would especially be impossible for a coup against the US government. Patriotism has nothing to do with it. The people of Germany prior to the Nazis were in a much, MUCH more dire situation than those in the US at this time (incredible starvation, extreme poverty, etc.). Everyone knows about the purges of every dicator; Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot. Besides the Native Americans, there haven't been blood thirsts purges of human lives in the US, and there never will be again. The world has nothing to worry about.
 
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Ahh, how quickly you forget the Iraq war. The government as a whole can, has been, and will be coerced, scared, bullied into submission. If it can happen to entire populations of people then dont be so quick to say it cant happen here. Actually, it happens here quite a bit.. TARP anyone? Patriot Act? It isnt the politicians themselves but the money interests behind them that make the calls. You dont get into office because of your ability to stand for whats right/be a moral example.. you're put there to further the interests of the highest bidder(s). Just do some research on the money involved in the Iraq war and the private entities profiting from the whole thing.. a war for profits is really all it was. Over a hundred thousand civilians lost their lives in the Iraq war... for what?

I appreciate your faith in the good ol' US but you need to take off the camouflage underwear and stop looking at our system through these apple pie tinted glasses. We wont become Nazi Germany, but I definately think these sorts of measures are a precursor to war/in the event of future war. How imminent that is, I have no idea, but pissing off China with war games right on the edge of their waters, constantly chattering about Iran, and now North Korea.. it seems clear to me we are looking for trouble. We have a tendency to create huge enemies out of little countries for dubious reasons, mostly market driven as well as for physical regional influence, which of course is to keep our foriegn markets safe. The fact that the US spends more on it's military than the next seventeen nations combined should give you some thought as to our intentions. I mean its one thing to have the biggest military in the world, but common. What causes a country to think they need an apparatus of that size? Have you ever wondered why our police departments across the country have all been militarized?

Our version of the dictator is/are the economic assassins we have in our country, and it's a double-edged sword as we are starting to see (and should have seen coming a mile away if we had paid attention in History class). Greed knows no nationality.

Also, to say that we're putting on paper what other countries already do is.. like, what does that even mean? So, it's okay to do this.. is that what you're saying?

As for Lieberman.. he really is a disgusting man. A Jew, supporting legislation like that. Makes my stomach turn.
 
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With the way our political system works, there will never be anyone as radical as Hitler elected to president. And EVEN if it somehow did happen, congress wouldn't let any crap he wrote in bills pass. It would especially be impossible for a coup against the US government. Patriotism has nothing to do with it. The people of Germany prior to the Nazis were in a much, MUCH more dire situation than those in the US at this time (incredible starvation, extreme poverty, etc.). Everyone knows about the purges of every dicator; Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot. Besides the Native Americans, there haven't been blood thirsts purges of human lives in the US, and there never will be again. The world has nothing to worry about.

You're right, we only need a major economic catastrophe to complete the circle, which should happen soon since we continue to rush headlong into debt over wars we can't afford.

Our political system is a bit of a joke too tbh, when both sides of the aisles are bought by the same corporate lobbyists.

The US needs to decide whether it wants to be a collapsed empire, or a republic with a reduced sphere of influence. One or the other will happen. This is just history repeating itself.
 
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Ahh, how quickly you forget the Iraq war. The government as a whole can, has been, and will be coerced, scared, bullied into submission. If it can happen to entire populations of people then dont be so quick to say it cant happen here. Actually, it happens here quite a bit.. TARP anyone? Patriot Act?
These acts are becoming ever more necessary with the increasing threat of terrorism. Violence and war evolves, so a country needs to evolve along with it. If we stick to our doctrine of liberty and privacy, terrorists will raze this country to the ground. For anyone to say liberty and privacy is more important than human life is kind of scary.
It isnt the politicians themselves but the money interests behind them that make the calls. You dont get into office because of your ability to stand for whats right/be a moral example.. you're put there to further the interests of the highest bidder(s).
I'm sure that's how it is for some of them, but not all of them.
Just do some research on the money involved in the Iraq war and the private entities profiting from the whole thing.. a war for profits is really all it was. Over a hundred thousand civilians lost their lives in the Iraq war... for what?
Oh no, people took advantage of a situation and profited from it! That's capitalism. Either you love it or you loathe it.

And FYI, Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of Kurds before we got there. We saved their asses from complete annihilation and extermination.
I appreciate your faith in the good ol' US but you need to take off the camouflage underwear and stop looking at our system through these apple pie tinted glasses. We wont become Nazi Germany, but I definately think these sorts of measures are a precursor to war/in the event of future war. How imminent that is, I have no idea, but pissing off China with war games right on the edge of their waters, constantly chattering about Iran, and now North Korea.. it seems clear to me we are looking for trouble.
First of all, China is up to their **** claiming they own all of the China Sea, despite the 12 nautical mile rule that every nation obeys. They started all of that. They were the ones threatening other small nations that the water is theirs. That is why the President started strengthening ties with Australia to combat this growing pressure. We didn't start this crap at all. And we're the only ones that are carrying exercises on the edge of their waters? So are they, and they started it first.

Iran was the one who started the whole crap about the Hormuz Straight. Not us. And... :eek:, we're protecting China's interests by patrolling the waters and safeguarding passing ships! How evil we are!
We have a tendency to create huge enemies out of little countries for dubious reasons, mostly market driven as well as for physical regional influence, which of course is to keep our foriegn markets safe.
Again, this is capitalism. You love it or you loathe it. No one had to do any business with us if they didn't want to.
The fact that the US spends more on it's military than the next seventeen nations combined should give you some thought as to our intentions. I mean its one thing to have the biggest military in the world, but common. What causes a country to think they need an apparatus of that size? Have you ever wondered why our police departments across the country have all been militarized?
How many people around the world hate us? Too many to count. That's why our military needs to be so powerful. People hate our lifestyle and how we do things, but we aren't going to let them put a stop to it. Our military protects our interests and human lives. The strength of a nation is its army. The strength of an army is its soldiers. The strength of soldiers is their families.
Our version of the dictator is/are the economic assassins we have in our country, and it's a double-edged sword as we are starting to see (and should have seen coming a mile away if we had paid attention in History class). Greed knows no nationality.
It's an up and down cycle. We just made 200,000 jobs last month and unemployment is down to 8.5%. The people making millions of dollars aren't just sitting on their money. They are reinvesting and making the world turn. They earned the money they made, and they are the ones giving us jobs so we can work. I thank corporations and rich fat cats every day for giving me a job. If you don't like the capitalist system, maybe it's best you live somewhere else.
 
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You are so fully indoctrinated that I hereby deem your response post as a classic. I started to reply but realized it's better to let your post stand as is.. in addition to that I know you're a kid with a very impressionable yet impregnable mind and it wouldnt serve me well to argue with such a disconnected, misinformed stance; shame on those around you.
 
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I find it scary that you prize security over liberty. This is a very dangerous position. You've officially moved off of what this country was founded on, which means you're officially being "unpatriotic" by holding that position.

I think you're very naive about the supposed good intentions of our politicians. Almost the entirety of congress and Obama of course are bought off. Can you really trust either Boehner or Pelosi (just as an example to show both sides of the aisle are equally corrupted) when the former received about $200,000 from lobbyists last year and the latter three times that much? This is not the exception in Washington either, but rather the rule. How can someone possibly have any integrity and remain unbiased when they are receiving huge sums of money from people who want a return on their investment?

And you're incorrect about it being capitalism, it is crony capitalism, whereby the people with the most money influence legislation to maintain their hold over a sector of the market, aka a "forced monopoly". This is a corruption of the free market, something that conservatives are supposed to be all about. And the role of the military is to defend the American people, not corporate interests.

I suggest you spend some time over at opensecrets.org examining the gigantic influence corporations have on our government. Look into the revolving door phenomenon too.

The idea that people hate us for our lifestyle is wrong. People hate us because we've killed their relatives and friends. Have you ever spent any time overseas in these countries that "hate us"? Because I have (Morocco specifically, for 7 years). No one ever hated on me for being white or rich (in comparison), no, it was because of what they saw as American meddling in their affairs and the affairs of their cultural cousins (overthrow of the Iranian gov and installation of a US puppet in the 50s for example). Ironically, the very policies that are supposedly about "national security" make this country far less safe.

Funnily enough, the positions you hold are more liberal than anything else. Interventionism and the idea of "making the world safe for democracy", were originally progressive ideas. The notion that the role of the government is to protect private corporate interests is by definition crony capitalism. You do not fully understand capitalism to say something like that.

Ostmann you are seriously misinformed and I hope you research this subject more. This is not a bash on you, when I was your age I used to think in a similar way, and came very close to enlisting.

And Fox is definitely to blame, but so is all mainstream media (MSNBC, CNN etc.)
 
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Ostmann, you should read "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler, a two-time medal of honor winner and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in history.

Even if you don't think anything of my opinions, I think you have to give some credence to what the Audie Murphy of the Marine Corps wrote about, given your admiration for the military. It's not written by some "limp wristed hippie", but by the very kind of person you (I think) aspire to be :).

(full disclosure, I haven't read it all myself yet, just excerpts, but what I've read so far is pretty compelling)
 
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I did not expect Obama to sign this. I can sort of understand the knee-jerk reaction that led to the Terrorist Act, even if I don't support it at all, but I thought we had moved on from that and Obama would steer America into the opposite direction again. Work against the Terrorist Act, get rid of Gitmo,...

Still, a long way to go to get anywhere near the situation in Nazi Germany, even in 1934! I think narrowing it down to 1934 gives the comparison more credibility than the usual "we're heading to Nazi Germany!" one-size-fits-all vague scare-crow argument ala Glenn Beck, and I too see scary parallels, but maybe you don't realize how fast and ruthless the Nazis actually acted at the time!
Modern day America is losing idealistic credibility in my eyes every time I hear about Guantanamo, the Terrorist Act or this new NDAA and compared to what I want America to be - a beacon of freedom - compared to that these developments are pretty horrible.

The potential for abuse is immense, of course. And mistakes are going to happen. Innocents will suffer because of this. And it's another stain on America's image.

But Nazi Germany? That's a different league altogether. Even in 1934.:(
 
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