Idea for "ZOOM" How to makes the Veterans happy

[MacX]

I think it's because it's fairly easy to shoot in RO2. If you see a target you're sure to hit it within 1-2 seconds with a Kar98.

In reallife you can see an enemy in a distance of say 200 meters but it takes you more time and skill to be able to hit him.

I'm not saying that using the Shift key is producing an unnatural amount of zooming but since the weapons are as accurate as they currently are, it makes it too easy to hit the enemy instantly.
Plus it feels weird to zoom by pressing a button when there's no such option in real life, but that's personal taste.

[r5cya]

Originally Posted by MacX

I think it's because it's fairly easy to shoot in RO2. If you see a target you're sure to hit it within 1-2 seconds with a Kar98.

In reallife you can see an enemy in a distance of say 200 meters but it takes you more time and skill to be able to hit him.

I'm not saying that using the Shift key is producing an unnatural amount of zooming but since the weapons are as accurate as they currently are, it makes it too easy to hit the enemy instantly.
Plus it feels weird to zoom by pressing a button when there's no such option in real life, but that's personal taste.

you don't shoot rifles do you?
it would be easier to shoot a man standing two hundred meters away from you in real life, than it is in the game, under the same circumstances. not the other way round.
it goes back to what i asked you to do earlier. go out and look at a guy at two hundred meters and see how huge they look cpmpared to guys two hundred meters in the game. do it and it's obvious you cannot see anywhere near as far in the game as in reality. (without hitting the zoom button that is. with the zoom, it's almost right)

[Mike_Nomad]

Zoom works fine..... why fix what ain't broken?

[PeteAtomic]

Originally Posted by Grenadier_Scionti

All the new zoom has done for me is prevented me from having to lean forward and break my ****ing neck to snipe pixels. So I am grateful it is there. Seriously, after nearly 5 years of playing RO1, I think my neck is ****ed. pops all the time now.

ha ha, lol
yeah, studying the screen, trying to find the white pixel that represents a face out there in the see of colors.

[Lone Rebel]

Originally Posted by r5cya

go out and look at a guy at two hundred meters and see how huge they look cpmpared to guys two hundred meters in the game

It all revolves around this point.

Simply put, depth of view, proportions, and imo lightining and blur are messed up to limit the game at its current state. Zoom allows you to see it quite right, BUT it takes away most of the screen. Basically, instaed of having a normal field of view\proportion ratio, you can have a 15° cone correct view, only when you zoom

I suspect they made it so (okay, it's just a theory with no basis, let's call it a speculation) for saving sys res and not killing the game demanding too much basic pre-requistes

It's simple, if you'd get all those details at your normal field of view (as it is in reality) the fps would be low, the base prereq for the game would be higher, cutting off a good slice of the market (not top line pcs, which, with the crisis running, aren't exactly on the top priority list of many families)

Zoom was a nice way to still give the details and keeping game needs low.

As i said before, just a theory of mine.

Otherwise, i couldn't see any need for the whole zoom thing.

[MacX]

Originally Posted by r5cya

you don't shoot rifles do you?
it would be easier to shoot a man standing two hundred meters away from you in real life, than it is in the game, under the same circumstances. not the other way round.

No, but I used to play airsoft quite a while with a Kar98. I know it's definitely not the same speaking of ranges and bullet behavior but my point it basically the aiming:
The weapon is quite heavy and if you try to precisely aim in iron sights you tend to shiver a bit plus some people (like me) have poor eyesight and thus having a hard time to clearly see in a distance of 200-300 meters.

Compared to this I'm experiencing it quite easy to aim and shoot in RO2.

[r5cya]

Originally Posted by MacX

some people (like me) have poor eyesight and thus having a hard time to clearly see in a distance of 200-300 meters.

Compared to this I'm experiencing it quite easy to aim and shoot in RO2.

re-read what i quoted and then tell me seriously, that's a good reason to take away the zoom.
i omitted what you wrote about the guns being heavy, shivering and airsoft, because they have nothing at all to do with how you see in real life and how you see in the game, nor how tripwire tried to adress the problem. (zoom)

p.s. my eyes are pretty bad as well. i'm 48. i can still see a man at 2-300 yards without my glasses. moot point though. it has nothing to do with the discussion.

[MacX]

Originally Posted by r5cya

i omitted what you wrote about the guns being heavy, shivering and airsoft, because they have nothing at all to do with how you see in real life and how you see in the game, nor how tripwire tried to adress the problem. (zoom)

My point is that it's much easier to aim and hit in RO2 than it would be in real life (leaving the zoom function aside).
I do not question the point you repeatedly stated that the zoom function is implented to achieve (I'd say fake) a more realistic amount of visibility.

And since it's fairly easy to hit someone it's even more the case when you're enabled to change to a real-life-vision which in the context of this virtual world you're moving in, feels unnatural.

[Calumhm]

Although I have a nostalgia for the fun of carefully aiming at a group of yellow pixels you know to be a russian MG/rifleman in Ostfront, I feel that what's come to replace that in HOS is a system that means you can always see something of even the furthest opponent, but it takes an immense degree of skill to hit a sprinter at 200+ metres.


So, while I do enjoy the way the zoom allows for a Mt. Everest of a learning curve, I also worry that HOS's guns have such perfectly aligned sights instantly.

In real life there would be a moment of time spent making the sights aligned perfectly, it wouldn't be instant.

[defektive]

Originally Posted by r5cya

go out and look at a guy at two hundred meters and see how huge they look cpmpared to guys two hundred meters in the game. do it and it's obvious you cannot see anywhere near as far in the game as in reality. (without hitting the zoom button that is. with the zoom, it's almost right)

All of the avatars in RO2 are 2/3rd scale (when compared to the environment) which doesn't help when it comes to equating a man-sized target @ 200m IRL to IG; unless you're looking at a midget IRL the two will never be in line. There have been a number of pictures posted that show the size differential between avatar and environment elsewhere on this forum (door handles at chest height, ‘11ft’ standard doorways etc.). The thing I don’t know for certain is if the IG range is scaled 1:1 with the environment or the avatars, it looks like it’s scaled with the environment.

[MrHello]

If anybody has played resistance and liberation when they updated to the orange box engine, why not just use their system for irons? It worked perfectly.

[r5cya]

Originally Posted by MacX

My point is that it's much easier to aim and hit in RO2 than it would be in real life (leaving the zoom function aside).
I do not question the point you repeatedly stated that the zoom function is implented to achieve (I'd say fake) a more realistic amount of visibility.

And since it's fairly easy to hit someone it's even more the case when you're enabled to change to a real-life-vision which in the context of this virtual world you're moving in, feels unnatural.

i guess we'll have to agree we disagree. there's no substance in your argument to change my mind. all you say is it's much easier to aim and hit in real life when, anyone who shoots in real life knows it's not. if you think we need more sway (or shiver as you called it) so be it. ask for that. don't ask that we reduce the vision we would naturally have to make it harder to shoot the rifles. whatcha gonna do when the big maps come? have the enemy suddenly appear, surprising you at 150 meters because our vision is nerfed? i don't want that. i want vision that simulates rel-world vision. if people think it's to easy to kill someone, then find another way to nerf them. not by taking away the most important tool you have, your eyes!

[r5cya]

Originally Posted by MrHello

If anybody has played resistance and liberation when they updated to the orange box engine, why not just use their system for irons? It worked perfectly.

i haven't. if you care to explain it, that might help.
p.s. we're not just talking irons here. people want to disable our ability to see at all times. not just in iron sights.

[Lone Rebel]

Originally Posted by Calumhm

it takes an immense degree of skill to hit a sprinter at 200+ metres.


So, while I do enjoy the way the zoom allows for a Mt. Everest of a learning curve, I also worry that HOS's guns have such perfectly aligned sights instantly.

In real life there would be a moment of time spent making the sights aligned perfectly, it wouldn't be instant.

Completely agree. Right now, hitting a running man @ 200 mt (sprinting and maybe going zig zag as i do when in open ground or under fire) is pure luck, and needs a good pc and ping imo. Let's also say that, in most cases, the maximum range of combat in WWII was about 400 mt, which rifles can handle. But forget about 1 shot 1 kill as you may be used now on under 100 mt ranges. Also, aligning the iron sights (both axis, so i mean horizontal\vertical alignment) should take time and be terribly hard when suppressed under fire, or out of breath, and especially when moving, even crawling. That would be realistic.

Originally Posted by defektive

All of the avatars in RO2 are 2/3rd scale (when compared to the environment) which doesn't help when it comes to equating a man-sized target @ 200m IRL to IG; unless you're looking at a midget IRL the two will never be in line. There have been a number of pictures posted that show the size differential between avatar and environment elsewhere on this forum (door handles at chest height, ‘11ft’ standard doorways etc.). The thing I don’t know for certain is if the IG range is scaled 1:1 with the environment or the avatars, it looks like it’s scaled with the environment.

Maybe this is a part of the problem we didn't considered before, and could add to the general problem of proportions.

Still, the depht of view is low compared to RL imo. Get yourself and a friend in an open space, like a field in the country. Count 300-320 steps and watch back. Take a picture if you like, and compare the average man height (1,80 mt) to what appears in the game. This will help clear things out.

[MacX]

Originally Posted by r5cya

whatcha gonna do when the big maps come? have the enemy suddenly appear, surprising you at 150 meters because our vision is nerfed?

You might have a point here. The current standard maps sizes are too tiny to have an actual need for zooming imo but in Ogledow it proved necessary, I agree. Maybe more sway would be the key...

Anyway, RO Classic will be abandoning the zoom key. I'd like to try it to see the impact on the gameplay.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I'm actually a bit bummed if the Classic mode abandons the zoom key. The only change I would like if at all would be the separate key for zooming and not have any autozoom with iron sights.

[Mike_Nomad]

Separate key? Yes but leave Zoom as it is elsewhere.