How do you rank the perks in hell on earth?

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by Althamus

Medics rarely deal any damage, do you think that makes them the worst class?

Sharps shouldn't get as many kills as say commandos, does that make them worse?

Berserkers are poor at camping, but the best class kiting. Does that make them better or worse than demos, who are the complete opposite?

But we discuss DAMAGE type perks now, not healing/headshoting/kiting. Also, zerkers are beasts at camping if you know how to, good examples are Aperture and Crash Although, without medic it's nearly impossible... and without rest of team being supports

[Althamus]

Originally Posted by BenioX

But we discuss DAMAGE type perks now, not healing/headshoting/kiting. Also, zerkers are beasts at camping if you know how to, good examples are Aperture and Crash Although, without medic it's nearly impossible... and without rest of team being supports

Nope, we're discussing that a firebug having the potential to deal the most damage doesn't make it the best class. By extension of that belief, medic (who undisputedly has the least capacity for damage out of all the classes) should be the worst class. But I don't think that is true.
I was also showing examples of other pigeonhole thinking. Just because a class is "the best at X" doesn't mean that class is "the best class ever".

And zerkers can camp, but I think it's fair to say that every other class is naturally more suited to camping, and that zerkers work at their peak when having enough room to move around a bit, which most camping locations do not.

[djw]

Depending on the map I've often played Firebug early on to fund playing demo from wave 6 or 7. Can get a full load out of M32/M79/pipes/hand grenades without any funding from the team. With a good team FP removal is very easy.

Firebug is very cheap to run if you can keep the FT for emergencies, and able to semi-auto Mac-10 targets, so much so I've sometimes spend less than 100 per wave. Also good for baiting Husks so they direct fire at you rather than the team, saves combat armour and healing.

To answer the original post, how to rank the perks in HoE, I think that's pointless, any perk is useful to a team if you have someone who knows how to play that perk and use it in the right situation. Having the right balance of perks for a given map and choice of tactic is far more important.

In HoE, I've probably played Demo and Zerker the most. Then Firebug and Commando. I'd be happy playing Sharp too.

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by Althamus

And zerkers can camp, but I think it's fair to say that every other class is naturally more suited to camping, and that zerkers work at their peak when having enough room to move around a bit, which most camping locations do not.

You're wrong. Zerkers are IDEAL for some tight camping areas, especially the one on Crash and Aperture, but ONLY if there's medic, as well. Sitting in the passage not letting zeds get through + supports shooting everything while zerker swings his swordie while medic heals the zerker is great strategy even on wave 10

[Althamus]

Do you mean sitting in the doorway, blocking it and stopping zeds from coming through?

It's a great strategy on earlier difficulties, but I've never made it work on later ones (particualrly HoE) because the zerker will get his armour eaten early on (duh). But when a scrake comes, or a FP if he rages early, he will kill the berserker in two hits on 100 HPs with no armour. Yes, if the zerker is good or sees the scrake coming, he can swap to an axe, and hopefully land a stun on his head before getting hit a second time, or the fleshpound will (hopefully) get killed before it can rage a second time. But unless you can stun EVERY scrake and kill EVERY fleshpound before being hit twice (and assuming the medic has enough time to heal you before the next one arrives). With 4 players (which I'm assuming you'll have. More than that and the zeds will be strong enough to make things harder, and much less and you won't have enough killing power on big nasties) you'll have twin scrakes spawning, if not twin fleshpounds.

It's a possible strategy. IMHO, it's far from an ideal strategy. I'd much rather everyone stay back a bit and just shoot, with a medic able to jump in front of a scrake of FP if needed. It's worked for me in that exact spot on Aperture without a hitch.

[BenioX]

I tried that strategy like many times on HoE and in 8/10 games it worked. I forgot to say though, anytime FP didn't die from 6 HS shots at the same time, medic mostly went in place of zerker just to take FPs hits, but mostly FPs and Scrakes die instantly (oh yeah, also medic and zerker use HS right then, forgot to say). The tactics work on all waves cept Pat wave so far as we tested it on HoE

[djw]

Originally Posted by Althamus

Do you mean sitting in the doorway, blocking it and stopping zeds from coming through?

It's a great strategy on earlier difficulties, but I've never made it work on later ones (particualrly HoE) because the zerker will get his armour eaten early on (duh).

Why bother with armour, it's a waste of money. You need a better medic

Scrakes and Fleshpounds shouldn't be a problem, they should be dealt with promptly by others in the team.

Even if the zerker dies half way through a wave, the team should have saved plenty of ammo to not have to worry making it to the end.

It's even easier if you have IJC whitelisted weapons, so the medic carries 3 medic guns and the Sharp has an M99 AMR.

Well places pipes just inside the door (protected from sirens) can deal with Fleshpounds, and the zerker just needs to drop back and someone make it rage whilst the pipe goes off. A good zerker won't take a hit from the Fleshpound if he has a good team behind him to remove it quickly.

[DarkFalz]

Originally Posted by BenioX

You're wrong. Zerkers are IDEAL for some tight camping areas, especially the one on Crash and Aperture, but ONLY if there's medic, as well. Sitting in the passage not letting zeds get through + supports shooting everything while zerker swings his swordie while medic heals the zerker is great strategy even on wave 10

Gotta agree with you there:

Killing Floor: 6 Player HOE KF-AbusementPark Wave 9,10+Pat - YouTube

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by DarkFalz

Gotta agree with you there:

Killing Floor: 6 Player HOE KF-AbusementPark Wave 9,10+Pat - YouTube

The patriarch wave was terrible. 2 Husk guns!? At max 1 would be enough bad but 2!?

[Spicy]

Originally Posted by BenioX

The patriarch wave was terrible. 2 Husk guns!? At max 1 would be enough bad but 2!?

Should have used 6. :[

[DarkFalz]

Originally Posted by BenioX

The patriarch wave was terrible. 2 Husk guns!? At max 1 would be enough bad but 2!?

I know man. We all should've followed Vulkan's lead and bought prochetes

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by DarkFalz

I know man. We all should've followed Vulkan's lead and bought prochetes

Actually prochetes would work pretty much like little chainsaws and might have worked...

[Splatpope]

For everyone sitting in doorways and enjoying it :

#include <iostream>
#include <conio.h>

using namespace std;

void main()
{
int zeds=0;
do
{
while(!kbhit());
if(getch()=='\n')
{
zeds++;
cout<<"Number of zeds killed : "<<zeds<<endl;
}
}
}while(1)
}

I've made a game for you

[Ek_]

Originally Posted by Morzarr

It seems that firebug is very underrepresented among us HOE players. Firebug is a phenomenal support class that should never be underestimated for its utility in a large group. Period. It's rather annoying to see such rash generalizations of the usefulness of classes, seeing as they all have their key roles. Typically the incompetency and stupidity of pubs and noobs give classes the bad names they receive. That doesn't mean they aren't more than capable in the right hands. Hence this thread is futile. At the end of the day, every class will still have its own niche that it excels at more so than any other.

I. Love. You.

[swedish]

TBH, Firebugs until now were generally frowned upon in my circle of friends simply because they thought they were basically a gimped garbage-zed killer that was taking up an extra support/commando/sharp slot. One of their biggest problems was that they were unable to quickly dispatch gorefasts and husks as swiftly as the other three classes. The addition of the trenchgun and flaregun helps those issues now, along with some additional bonuses as well (like safely soloing a scrake with dual flareguns if needed) makes me thrilled to play a class that won't be met with as much intense derision from my friends now.

With those weaknesses gone, it's much easier for teammates to notice how the perks of a firebug help out the team with literally taking all the heat from husks, and using fire nades to bathe yourself and comrades in protective flames.

[egg man]

Firebugs are a lot more useful now that you can easily set stuff on fire without ever having to touch the Flamethrower. The MAC-10 in semi-automatic mode is perfect for setting trash on fire, while the Trenchgun and Flare Revolvers help deal with the bigger targets.

You'll still have people Flamethrower spamming and blocking everyone's view, but smart Firebugs can finally be effective without making people mad because you're using the Flamethrower.

[killingfloor19]

Sharpshooter - My favorite perk. very useful but the most difficult.
Commando - cool perk requiers some skill
Support -effective and noobish perk. really noobish I get really bored with it:\
Medic - makes the game much easier to beat
Berserker - I dont really play much kiting now because it takes too much time and its useless for camping
Firebug - this perk is so boring I dont respect people playing with it.
Demolitions - annoying! I hate people playing demo!

[Ek_]

Originally Posted by killingfloor19

Sharpshooter - My favorite perk. very useful but the most difficult.
Commando - cool perk requiers some skill
Support -effective and noobish perk. really noobish I get really bored with it:\
Medic - makes the game much easier to beat
Berserker - I dont really play much kiting now because it takes too much time and its useless for camping
Firebug - this perk is so boring I dont respect people playing with it.
Demolitions - annoying! I hate people playing demo!

I love how you take the time to explain your reasons in detail :P

[smooshman]

#1 Support/Sharpshooter- able to take any zed with relative ease (with enough practice and skill). Probably the only perk I'm happy to see more than 1 of
#2 medic- they keep you alive, and can take like a boss when Bad Things happen.
#3 demo- they kill fp's faster than anyone else, and can supply serious cover fire when someone's in deep crap.
#4 firebug/commando- firebug got alot better after the halloween update. They might even be better than commando with some load outs. Either way, these guys kill trash like nobodies business. Firebug is useful for taking husk shots, and commando can give a good estimate on enemy numbers, and where pat is.
#5 berzerker- the most broken perk, but also the least useful to the teams survival. They can kill every zed with ease, but more slowly than others, so they don't really provide a benefit to the team. Good in maps that need a certain section covered though.