Countdown - Close but so far away

[drswank]

Clearly this mode is designed to be similar to BF:Bad Company's Gold Rush, but it's arguably less polished and fun. Here are some key, simple points to why:

1. Defenders NEED Time to Prepare: Since defenders have no reinforcements, it seems like the defending team should have AT LEAST 10 seconds for the team to set up a proper defense so to defend the objective. Imagine, your team is setup for defense properly, then, piercing you quiet wintery bliss, *WHISTLES* *ARMY'S YELLING* *STAMPEDING CHARGE* "WAAHAAAGGGHH". THIS is how you make a great version of Countdown.

2. Indication that the point is being captured: At its current state, there's no audible or visual clue as to IF the point is being captured, and how much time before the point IS captured. There needs to be a tug-of-war bar (or something) to indicate how close or far away the attacking team is to taking the point, because at its current place, as an attacking team-member, it's not satisfying whatsoever to win, especially when the end is so abrupt, followed by a harsh respawn.

3. So many more ideas, but these top two things should at least make it more fun without too much programming work. Clearly things like continuous battles like BF Gold Rush, or a morphing out-of-bounds line which changes to adjust for the new objective *without* have to respawn. But, hey, I can live with the abrupt respawn, there just needs to be some frosting to cover the bland aesthetic of a bare chocolate cake.

That's all for now. Feel free to add your own ideas below. Keep them simple, as the mounting laundry list for TWI is quickly becoming apocalyptic.

From user below (josef nader), which encapsulates what I was trying to get at:

+1 to the defense having a few seconds to get to good positions.

Then run some testing and figure out how many reenforcement waves it takes, on average, to capture the structure when used well and give the attackers more reenforcements.

That would be an incredible gamemode, IMHO. A small team of well-entrenched defenders fighting off wave after wave of attackers. Perhaps even throw in some nice sound cues that the next wave is coming. Like OP said, some whistles and yelling would go a long way to getting the defenders to crap their pants as the smoke 'nades pop and they're left firing into the mist...

[Warsaurus]

While I agree that for the sake of realism the defenders would be given time to set up, gameplay wise it's a bad idea.

Take the Fallen map for example. The defenders are set up in a building with 40 yards (Meters) of open space for the attackers to cross. If the Defenders had time to set up, they would simply annihilate the opposition before they closed on them.

There's a reason why common military knowledge dictates 3 attackers per every 1 defender at the VERY least to assault a position. And while with reinforcement waves this is evened out a little, it is far from enough. The way it is now really gives each side just enough time.

I understand your reasoning for such a feature, but I don't think it would work for the attackers. Already the attacking team on Fallen hardly ever gets passed the first objective.

[neodjr]

Sounds like great stuff. I just don't like being forced to respawn.... especially when i work hard to get to a certain spot.

[drswank]

Originally Posted by Warsaurus

While I agree that for the sake of realism the defenders would be given time to set up, gameplay wise it's a bad idea.

Take the Fallen map for example. The defenders are set up in a building with 40 yards (Meters) of open space for the attackers to cross. If the Defenders had time to set up, they would simply annihilate the opposition before they closed on them.

There's a reason why common military knowledge dictates 3 attackers per every 1 defender at the VERY least to assault a position. And while with reinforcement waves this is evened out a little, it is far from enough. The way it is now really gives each side just enough time.

I understand your reasoning for such a feature, but I don't think it would work for the attackers. Already the attacking team on Fallen hardly ever gets passed the first objective.

Strange, because every time I've played it, we get to the end.

[Hells High]

Originally Posted by drswank

1. Defenders NEED Time to Prepare: Since defenders have no reinforcements, it seems like the defending team should have AT LEAST 10 seconds for the team to set up a proper defense so to defend the objective. Imagine, your team is setup for defense properly, then, piercing you quiet wintery bliss, *WHISTLES* *ARMY'S YELLING* *STAMPEDING CHARGE* "WAAHAAAGGGHH". THIS is how you make a great version of Countdown.

Agree. A simple head start for the defenders would be a great addition.

Originally Posted by drswank

2. Indication that the point is being captured: At its current state, there's no audible or visual clue as to IF the point is being captured, and how much time before the point IS captured. There needs to be a tug-of-war bar (or something) to indicate how close or far away the attacking team is to taking the point, because at its current place, as an attacking team-member, it's not satisfying whatsoever to win, especially when the end is so abrupt, followed by a harsh respawn.

If you have ever been inside the cap zone, there is exactly that. At the bottom you see some little colour coded graphics. A meter (the defender's logo) fills up with your teams colour. There are also little colour coded soldiers beside the logo to indicate the team's strength inside the cap zone. When the objective is being capped, a text warning you as such pops up on the screen as well.

I disagree with the title, as CountDown is one of my favorite gamemodes thus far. I do agree, however, that there are some things that could be added/adjusted to make it better.

[drswank]

Originally Posted by Hells High

If you have ever been inside the cap zone, there is exactly that. At the bottom you see some little colour coded graphics. A meter (the defender's logo) fills up with your teams colour. There are also little colour coded soldiers beside the logo to indicate the team's strength inside the cap zone. When the objective is being capped, a text warning you as such pops up on the screen as well.

Maybe extend that GUI indicator to people outside of the capzone, that way people who are outside of it know that the situation is dire "get to the capzone"?

[luciferintears]

I overall did not like this gamemode.

I might give it another chance if its fleshed out a bit more

[Josef Nader]

+1 to the defense having a few seconds to get to good positions.

Then run some testing and figure out how many reenforcement waves it takes, on average, to capture the structure when used well and give the attackers more reenforcements.

That would be an incredible gamemode, IMHO. A small team of well-entrenched defenders fighting off wave after wave of attackers. Perhaps even throw in some nice sound cues that the next wave is coming. Like OP said, some whistles and yelling would go a long way to getting the defenders to crap their pants as the smoke 'nades pop and they're left firing into the mist...

[drswank]

Originally Posted by Josef Nader

+1 to the defense having a few seconds to get to good positions.

Then run some testing and figure out how many reenforcement waves it takes, on average, to capture the structure when used well and give the attackers more reenforcements.

That would be an incredible gamemode, IMHO. A small team of well-entrenched defenders fighting off wave after wave of attackers. Perhaps even throw in some nice sound cues that the next wave is coming. Like OP said, some whistles and yelling would go a long way to getting the defenders to crap their pants as the smoke 'nades pop and they're left firing into the mist...

EXACTLY. This mode is very close to being something that would really create suspense and excitement for both sides. More crap in our pants the better. Thanks for this post. This is exactly the concept I was trying to get at.

[LHeureux]

I agree, if attackers get more reinforcements waves, way more, it could been really awesome! Defenders got time to set up positions, but got less men.

[drswank]

Originally Posted by LHeureux

I agree, if attackers get more reinforcements waves, way more, it could been really awesome! Defenders got time to set up positions, but got less men.

At least it would be something worth testing, imho.

It would also be like the ever-popular coop "wave" enduring game modes seen in Gears of War of Halo's Firefight, but this would be 1000 times better because everyone is human on both sides.

[The Algerian]

I thought the same thing while playing it yesterday.
We need a few seconds to prepare before the round starts, not only so defenders can set their defense, but especially because when the map just changed to countdown, if your PC takes more time loading it than the other players, you're just considered dead, and have to wait for the next respawn wave.

[drswank]

There are lots of things that could be changed to make this game mode better, but the changes i've offered would only take a short morning of the developers time to implement.

[NoxNoctum]

Giving defenders a few seconds to set up would be great.

Or maybe give the defenders a good bit of time to set up but give the attackers more waves? That could be *really* cool.

[SkinZ187]

this game mode should not be scrapped... it just needs some tweaking/refinement.

[drswank]

Originally Posted by SkinZ187

this game mode should not be scrapped... it just needs some tweaking/refinement.

I don't think it should be scrapped either. Great mode, just a couple easy tweeks could turn it up a notch.

[raccoon]

I prefer it the way it is currently, it makes the game mode a lot more intense when everyone is scrambling for cover and positions right off the start.

If defenders have a lot of time to set up you're just asking for people to slowly crawl around corners on offense to take out MG's that have already set up. Having a lot of reinforcements waves counteracts the feel of having one life, thus making the game mode useless. The countdown maps aren't your run of the mill community ost-front trash where you throw spam smoke grenades and ram your team's head again an mg42 brick wall until you zerg into it successfully.

If they are going to change to be like the OP they should at least have a different type of gamemode, but not ruin countdown.

[raov.soLucky]

I think its very well balanced as is, Defenders usually spawn a little bit closer to the obj or have some sort of environmental advantage. Giving them time to setup would be bad for the overall gameplay. As far as the attackers being able to get reinforced goes, i think its pretty well balanced around the fact that they have to fight over multiple stages. They have to win in order for the round to continue while defense only has to win once.

Also there is an indicator as to if the obj is being taken over. At the bottom you can see how many men each side has near the obj and i believe it also flashes if your are losing it.

[Josef Nader]

Heh, the Soviets start with a huge defensive force, and by the third or fourth wave you're down to a handful of defenders, stubbornly holding on to the last few rings of defense with scavenged weapons, running low on ammunition, resorting to beating the Krauts to death with rifle butts and bayonets...

Delicious.

[coldplatypus]

No thanks, It's good how it is. I think we just need to learn the maps better.