FAMAS Assault Rifle Project [WIP]

[Bl4ckDr4g0N]

Hello everyone
i am currently modeling a FAMAS which will be hopefully a working mod for KF.
So far i modeled for like 5 days, and this is what i made so far:








comments and feedback would be really appreciated

[ro_sauce]

looks good so far, keep working on it!

[Bl4ckDr4g0N]

thanks, will do

[Z3RO]

Alrighty here's a few crits. You have alot of ngons in your model right now, they will give you terrible smoothing errors once ingame, its best to get rid of them right now, then to have to deal with them later. The grip needs a little more work, also you're adding alot of extra edges and bevels that are not really needed. Other then that its pretty good so far.

[Benjamin]

Looking pretty cool so far. My only criticism would be that for the screen shots you used PNG instead of a more suitable format like JPG.

[Bl4ckDr4g0N]

Originally Posted by Z3RO

Alrighty here's a few crits. You have alot of ngons in your model right now, they will give you terrible smoothing errors once ingame, its best to get rid of them right now, then to have to deal with them later. The grip needs a little more work, also you're adding alot of extra edges and bevels that are not really needed. Other then that its pretty good so far.

yeah thanks but i pretty much saw that kind of modeling in this tutorial: http://www.moddb.com/tutorials/creat...pon-for-source (he does the ngons too if i am right.. xD)
so what do you think i should do? add edges across those ngons? and bevels, you mean on the grip? sorry this is my first model ever so i am not experienced about what should i do xD

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Looking pretty cool so far. My only criticism would be that for the screen shots you used PNG instead of a more suitable format like JPG.

i use PNG cause its smaller and faster to upload and still has same quality as JPG

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Bl4ckDr4g0N

i use PNG cause its smaller and faster to upload and still has same quality as JPG

It's only smaller if it's a simple image (like line-art), otherwise it can be much bigger since it's lossless compared to JPG which is lossy (although with the right quality setting JPG can look just as good to the naked eye with only a fraction of the size).

[Bl4ckDr4g0N]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

It's only smaller if it's a simple image (like line-art), otherwise it can be much bigger since it's lossless compared to JPG which is lossy (although with the right quality setting JPG can look just as good to the naked eye with only a fraction of the size).

okay ill use jpg in future for screenshots

[Z3RO]

Ngons are polygons with more then 4 vertices. When you compile your weapon into a game engine, all the polygons will be converted into triangles, if your model is already made of triangles and quads the game engine should have no problem in the triangulation process, once you throw ngons into the loop, you will start having terrible smoothing errors, which in turn will make your model look like crap ingame.

Here's some examples of some of my models with ngons and without.


With Ngons, notice above the grip, and trigger area are full of them, not to mention all the cylinders.



Now here's the properly done version Thanks to Racer445 who completely triangulated the gun, and told me I should never use Ngons again or he would beat me.




Another Example, look at the top of the slide, all those ngons due to the grooves. D=




Now here's the fixed version.

[Bl4ckDr4g0N]

i think i pretty much get it, thanks a bunch Z3RO
so what do you think, should i model it to the end like this and then add the necessary edges or continue modeling with them immediately? the first option seems kinda easier for me..
and by the way, have you got any more beginner tips for me? i really like the modeling and i absolutely adore your models so i wanna become like that some day too

[Z3RO]

Thanks man, If I was you, I'd get ride of all the Ngons first, they just become a hassle towards the end. Also when fixing up ngons, try to aviod long thin triangles they will give you smoothing errors. As for tips I would recommend using very high res photo for your references, and learn alot of max's modifiers they can be really handy for low poly modeling and sub d work. I would also recommend visiting sites like polycount or gameartist and learning from others, look at how they tackle hard geometry (I'm not saying copy them but learn from how they are doing it). Also never give up, modeling is very hard to learn, you can only get better if you try.

[FluX]

Originally Posted by Z3RO

Thanks man, If I was you, I'd get ride of all the Ngons first, they just become a hassle towards the end. Also when fixing up ngons, try to aviod long thin triangles they will give you smoothing errors. As for tips I would recommend using very high res photo for your references, and learn alot of max's modifiers they can be really handy for low poly modeling and sub d work. I would also recommend visiting sites like polycount or gameartist and learning from others, look at how they tackle hard geometry (I'm not saying copy them but learn from how they are doing it). Also never give up, modeling is very hard to learn, you can only get better if you try.

I can tell you he is working seriously hard on this. I hardly see him nowadays cause he keeps turning up and saying "argh i'll work on the famas, cya" or "omg check what I have done now!" :P +1 to blackdragon for a completely newbie

[Bl4ckDr4g0N]

Hello again. I have been extremely busy with school, so i couldnt work on it at all. Now its almost christmas, so i got some time to continue abit :P
Here's the progress: (warning, crapload of pics ahead)











So you can see i TRIED to fix the ngons, tho i think i didnt do it really succesfull. Please note once again that this is my FIRST model EVER, so i am happy with it as it is D

Please comment and rate, even add a few suggestions of what should i do or improve.
Cheers, BD.

[J.D.*]

@ Bl4ck Dr4gon

I think your progress is coming along great! Look forward to the finished project.

I just wanted to mention, that when you have ngons, they're triangulated already and simply connecting them up anywhere isn't going to automatically solve smoothing errors. I had a long discussion with a good buddy of mine awhile back where we were talking about triangulation and progressive welding. Here is a good article to read up on triangulation and utilizing "maximum" space. http://www.humus.name/index.php?page=News&ID=228

and here is an example of clean and progressive welding



The insets were cut out on a curved surface and I had a ton of smoothing errors on it before progressively welding. Now, just like the picture its pretty clean and smooths great.

Edit: Also keep in mind that you don't need to model everything in 1 solid piece, esp if the faces are going to be on separate smoothing groups.

[Bl4ckDr4g0N]

Thanks for the tips!
I will read that for sure, and i will see what can i understand. As you might see, (or maybe not) is that i am aiming mostly at quads, as they look nicer for me.. I know there are some places where i HAVE to put triangles, but yeah.
Also, i am gonna need a small tutorial or something about making multiple objects and combining them.. Like i gotta do the trigger: i thought i have to make the model, put it where it has to be, make it only spin around one point if moving and then attach it to the gun.. I dont know if thats a correct theory, i could use any help about it.
Also i was wondering about one more thing: How does the smoothing go? I mean, after i finish the model like this, do i have to smooth it to put it ingame? Also do i have to do a same, but lower-poly version model for 3rd person?
Infact, do you have any instant messaging programs? If so, i would really appreciate if we could talk somewhere instantly, instead of replying to each other here. It would be much easier too.

Thanks once again for all the help guys

[J.D.*]

Originally Posted by Bl4ckDr4g0N

Thanks for the tips!
As you might see, (or maybe not) is that i am aiming mostly at quads, as they look nicer for me.. I know there are some places where i HAVE to put triangles, but yeah.

Modeling in quads is fine, just know that when you import the model into KFed, it'll be triangulated. Under the edit poly modifier in 3ds max, scroll down and find "turn", this will allow you to see the triangulation and allow you to flip the direction for better edge flow. When I model, I tend to keep everything as clean as I can and in quads, then take the time to progressively weld down the quads into tris where I see fit.

Originally Posted by Bl4ckDr4g0N

Also, i am gonna need a small tutorial or something about making multiple objects and combining them.. Like i gotta do the trigger: i thought i have to make the model, put it where it has to be, make it only spin around one point if moving and then attach it to the gun.. I dont know if thats a correct theory, i could use any help about it.

Not sure what you're getting at with this. If you're talking from an animating pov then an animator can chime in and help . If you're talking about modeling then you can attach multiple objects at once with the edit poly modifier. If you have a lot of parts to the gun, working with layers is probably a good idea too. In the help section of 3ds max, type in "layers" and it'll give you all the info you need.

Originally Posted by Bl4ckDr4g0N

Also i was wondering about one more thing: How does the smoothing go? I mean, after i finish the model like this, do i have to smooth it to put it ingame? Also do i have to do a same, but lower-poly version model for 3rd person?

You can assign smoothing groups to a model within 3ds max. See here http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process...ing_groups.jpg
As far as the lower res 3rd person model goes, a programmer would have have to chime in and talk about the performance cuts you would get from using high vs low poly model. Personally I don't think it's really necessary but I think its good practice to do so.

[Bl4ckDr4g0N]

Okay, awesome
Thanks again for all the help mate

[FluX]

Originally Posted by J.D.*

You can assign smoothing groups to a model within 3ds max. See here http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process...ing_groups.jpg
As far as the lower res 3rd person model goes, a programmer would have have to chime in and talk about the performance cuts you would get from using high vs low poly model. Personally I don't think it's really necessary but I think its good practice to do so.

I can explain the 3rd person part to you if you want blackdragon. I can show an example of the P90 I ported over to our server when I get the mutator sorted. We have the Teamviewer anyway

[Bobob]

Man, i'm asking one thing, are you still making it ?

I hope you are it would be awesome for all the bloody frenchies to be able to screw around with a famas when everyone is making tea time with dosh !



Good luck !

[FluX]

Originally Posted by Bobob

Man, i'm asking one thing, are you still making it ?

I hope you are it would be awesome for all the bloody frenchies to be able to screw around with a famas when everyone is making tea time with dosh !



Good luck !

Yeah that joke wasn't funny at all as im British and this is my favourite gun. We aren't tea makers, you'd be suprised how many people don't like tea.

Anyway, my friend here pretty much gave up after messing it up months ago and when I asked about it, he wouldn't pass it on to be finished but said "he will try find time" but I haven't spoken to him in a long time either. Highly doubt this will be finished