Killing Floor 1015 Balance Patch 4

[Zonker]

Originally Posted by 9_6

(Something else that could use a category change would be the mac 10)

Originally Posted by SMIFF

Oh, and +1 to the Mac10 category change.

Originally Posted by Old Ranger

And yes would be nice if Mac-10 were in somewhere else than 4.

Yup, while we're at it, I'd support putting it somewhere else. MAC-10 on 3 and it would be fine. Or Flamethrower on 3 and MAC-10 on 4, I don't really mind as long as they're separated. :)

Edit:
The M32 could be put to 4, too. Don't think this one and the LAW will ever be used at the same time, anyway.

Originally Posted by Aze

2) No chance on letting Demolitions have a perk bonus which reduces the weight of the LAW? (For example, -3 weight at level 6, making it only weigh 10 in total, allowing you to use the M79 along with it)

I don't think this is really needed. The damage is very nice now, the blast radius seems ok to me and the arming distance prevents too many suicides. Pipes help, too. All it takes is a half-way organised team so you only need to whip out the 9mm now and then. It only gets ugly when you get swarmed too much, I think.

[Salad Snake]

These all look like great changes. Will test when I get home (I never see servers occupied though...).

How does Katana RoF match versus prebeta?

[҈Oc†ө]

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

How does Katana RoF match versus prebeta?

It's nice now, wouldn't touch it more. Compared to prebeta there's only the damage nerf due to the backstab fix, but it can now deal with trash and husks + sirens much better than in previous betas

[EonSeig]

I love you guys.

Why Steam decided to crap out on me for the last 2 days I have no clue, but it's really grinding my nerves that I can't get back to playing the beta right now. I disconnected my DSL modem on Monday to clean out the desk and throw away a bunch of old crap. When I got back around to reconnecting everything I found that Steam had logged me out and stopped remembering my password. I try to log back in and it tells me my account name is incorrect. Well, that doesn't make any sense because I copied and pasted it directly from my Steam account folder. I tried to get my account name sent to me in my email but every time I try to do that Steam fails to finish the process and I never get the email. Now I'm kinda stuck in limbo here trying to get Steam Support to respond to me.

LAW sounds much better now. I hope it feels more like an anti weapon and not a flying fuel air bomb.

Crossbow ammo discount seems....odd, but I can live with it. Spawning with 600 pounds scott free every time you die is still pretty broken.

M14 headshot buff is sort of what I asked for, but not exactly what I think most of the other beta testers wanted. The M14 makes the Sharpshooter too good at doing the Commando's job because of its bodyshot damage. I'm all for making the M14 overall a bit better at headshots, but its base damage needs to go down massively before it can be considered fair to other perks meant for corwd control.

[scary ghost]

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

These all look like great changes. Will test when I get home (I never see servers occupied though...).

How does Katana RoF match versus prebeta?

Prebeta speed is 0.6, right now it's 0.67. With the zerker bonus, it's 0.45 vs 0.5 respectively. It feels about the same really. At 2.22 swings / sec vs 2 swings/ses, I'm sure someone will notice the 0.22 swings missing, lol. Well, maybe over time anyways, 9 seconds is 20 swings vs 18.

[Benjamin]

Increased fire rate to .67 from .75 on the Katana

Yay.

Modified chainsaw and katana weapon categories to be in 3 and 4 respectively

Nay! Whenever I have either of these weapons I never use the knife, so that'd be a slot wasted.

Increased M14 head shot multiplier by 25% - From 2 to 2.25

Awesome, but you might want to work on those maths a bit.

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by Oc†

It's nice now, wouldn't touch it more. Compared to prebeta there's only the damage nerf due to the backstab fix, but it can now deal with trash and husks + sirens much better than in previous betas

Originally Posted by scary ghost

Prebeta speed is 0.6, right now it's 0.67. With the zerker bonus, it's 0.45 vs 0.5 respectively. It feels about the same really. At 2.22 swings / sec vs 2 swings/ses, I'm sure someone will notice the 0.22 swings missing, lol. Well, maybe over time anyways, 9 seconds is 20 swings vs 18.

I see, thanks for the info, that seems perfect.

[Zeraan]

I just played as demo, and I noticed one odd thing:

Price of 2 pipes when first buying (if I don't have pipes) is 450

However, at the start of game (I'm level 5 demo), I dropped one pipe, but still have one when the trader round start. I decided to sell the pipe, and the price was 337

Let's see, if I sell one pipe for 337, then buy two pipes for 450, that's 113 in difference.

If I didn't have any pipes to start with, it'd be 225 for each pipe.

I think the sell price of pipes is a bit messed up and should be fixed.

[timur]

It's time for the Timur Report 1 of Wave 4.

The changes have been all very nice.

I like the katana speed.... between the backstab fix and the returned rate of fire, it has evened out nicely.

The LAW also generally better.

Crossbow ammo was a bit too expensive, so the discount's about right. After all the nerfing it got, I doubt anyone will be calling OP.

The slot changes....well I like the chainsaw one, becuase it allows me to go knife quickly for speed. However, it got me killed/injured mutliple times with the katana; I'm too used to pressing "1" for it.

I will require more testing before proper conclusions are made.

And thanks for releasing it right before my Birthday
(I feel so special.....they obviously did it in celebration of it)

[scary ghost]

LAW and melee weapon changes:

YouTube - Killing Floor - 1015 Beta Patch 4 - LAW and Melee Weapon Changes

LAW is a beast now, nearly brings down a 6 man suicidal fp and scrake. I had always though it was 100% extra damage but it seems like hitting the upper chest does something less like 90% or so. Regardless, some pistol shots finish the job but you still need room to get 2 rockets off.

The katana speed buff is nice. 0.67 vs 0.60 isn't really noticeable especially with the level 6 zerker swing speed but it is there.

[outofrealman]

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

Increased M14 head shot multiplier - From 2 to 2.25

Solo fp head shot requirement decrease from 5 to 4. 6-man fp head shot requirement decrease from 11 to 9. Husk and siren all die in one hs from 1-6man (compare to 2 shots from patch 2).

Demolitions -
Increased discount on pipe bomb purchase - Up to 74% instead of 68% at lvl 6

Still too expensive IMO.

Increased direct damage on LAW rocket hits - Damaged increased to 950 from 850, and radius reduced to 500 from 600.

Arming distance on LAW increased from 6 meters to 10 meters.
Changed price of all grenade launcher nades to 10 (m32 and m79)

6lv demo need two LAW rocket + 7 9mm shots to kill an 6-man suicidal fp (simaliar to scrake). And you cannot damage yourself. I tried many times, the rocket either not exploding or too far to hurt myself.

[weeman2412]

the law is still useless... you got 15 shots... on suicidal you are seeing upwards of 200+ zombies... hypothetically the best case scenario is that you took out 5-13 zombies with one shot... with getting 13 a really big stretch.. so what this patch with law recommends is the demo man just runs around with this utterly useless weapon until an fp or scrakes comes running around.. while everyone rakes in money and kills.. remember PUGs aren't exactly friendly all the time.. and probably won't share money with the homeless or ammo less..

So if you are a LAW demo expect to go broke very fast.. The law should hit harder in my opinion.. in fact I believe they should one hit a scrake at least for anyone to justify even carryone a 15 shot weapon..

the other option would be to bring the shots down to 5-7 .. and let it be the kill and end all.. that will exactly one hit an fp on direct hit... with an enormous blast radius.. therefore being a real nuking weapon..

or keep it as is.. but give us some room to equip a back up nade launcher :|

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by weeman2412

the law is still useless... you got 15 shots... on suicidal you are seeing upwards of 200+ zombies... hypothetically the best case scenario is that you took out 5-13 zombies with one shot... with getting 13 a really big stretch.. so what this patch with law recommends is the demo man just runs around with this utterly useless weapon until an fp or scrakes comes running around.. while everyone rakes in money and kills.. remember PUGs aren't exactly friendly all the time.. and probably won't share money with the homeless or ammo less..

So if you are a LAW demo expect to go broke very fast.. The law should hit harder in my opinion.. in fact I believe they should one hit a scrake at least for anyone to justify even carryone a 15 shot weapon..

the other option would be to bring the shots down to 5-7 .. and let it be the kill and end all.. that will exactly one hit an fp on direct hit... with an enormous blast radius.. therefore being a real nuking weapon..

or keep it as is.. but give us some room to equip a back up nade launcher :|

Even if you had an M32 and M79 instead, you'd still suffer from low total ammo count and inability to defend at close range. You'd still need teammates to protect you, and ration your shots (instead of just spamming explosives everywhere).

Demo in general requires more teamwork to field then other classes (except maybe Medic), that's the nature of the class. If anything, the LAW simply takes that trait to it's extreme.

Besides, if your teamwork is poor you aren't going to last long in Suicidal anyway. If you're in a lower difficulty you should typically have enough money to fund yourself as Demo, not to mention good teams aren't rare in my experience. I think you give the KF community too little credit (or it's just your region).

[Voodoo Shoe]

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

Increased M14 head shot multiplier - From 2 to 2.25

what exactly does that mean? u need more HS to activate zed time or something?

Demolitions -
Increased discount on pipe bomb purchase - Up to 74% instead of 68% at lvl 6
Increased direct damage on LAW rocket hits - Damaged increased to 950 from 850, and radius reduced to 500 from 600.
Arming distance on LAW increased from 6 meters to 10 meters.
Changed price of all grenade launcher nades to 10 (m32 and m79)

sounds cool actually...still think you should cap the amount of pipes being laid down by one player though.

And the LAW buffs are nice....will the 10meter arm increase stop us from nuking ourselves?

[9_6]

Just tested things a bit.
I'd suggest changing the keys for the melee weapons around in other ways.
The Katana should go on 1 and the saw should go on 4.

If you have a saw, you can't realistically buy/carry any weapon that goes on 4 (xbow, pipes, flamer...), you'll usually end up with a lever action rifle which is on 3.
So the saw should be 4.

The katana didn't really need a key change.
You usually run around with only 1 melee weapon and a backup one anyway and the knife is nothing you ever want to touch if you got a katana.

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

Even if you had an M32 and M79 instead, you'd still suffer from low total ammo count and inability to defend at close range.

You'd have ~60 shots though.
I think 60 is more than 15.

The LAW could use 5 more rockets, then it should be good to go.

[Aze]

Originally Posted by 9_6

Just tested things a bit.
I'd suggest changing the keys for the melee weapons around in other ways.
The Katana should go on 1 and the saw should go on 4.

If you have a saw, you can't realistically buy/carry any weapon that goes on 4 (xbow, pipes, flamer...), you'll usually end up with a lever action rifle which is on 3.
So the saw should be 4.

The katana didn't really need a key change.
You usually run around with only 1 melee weapon and a backup one anyway and the knife is nothing you ever want to touch if you got a katana.



You'd have ~60 shots though.
I think 60 is more than 15.

The LAW could use 5 more rockets, then it should be good to go.

Agreed 100% on this, in particular the Keybinds for melee weapon (Katana on 1, Chainsaw on 4)

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by Voodoo Shoe

what exactly does that mean? u need more HS to activate zed time or something?

It means you do more damage with a headshot.



Also, don't get me wrong, I think more rockets for the LAW would be fine too. But it's by it's very nature a "teamwork gun", and I think that's fine too. It shouldn't be something you can main with the whole round.

[9_6]

Is it just me or is the chainsaw altfire slower now?

[Evilsod]

I agree with changing Katana back to 1 and Chainsaw to 4 as its too heavy to use most of the 'special' weapons. Though only if Mac 10 is also changed to 3.

It would be nice to see Demo get 1 extra Rocket per level, so you'd end up with 21 LAW rockets max. Its not too many extra but its enough to make you useful for something other than shooting FPs. Although considering the weight was lowered to allow for Pipebombs it may be unnecessarily really... if anything a discount on ammo would be nice.

[scary ghost]

Originally Posted by 9_6

Is it just me or is the chainsaw altfire slower now?

It's not just you. I looked in the source code and it looks like the fire rate was changed from 0.8 to 1.1 sec/swing.