Piracy, DRM and HoS

[REZ]

Originally Posted by VN

it's because they found the golden goose of digital distro

If only this 'golden goose' allowed for a secondary market.. that's the main drawback to digi-distro. (no real incentive for them to do so, so I don't see that happening ...ever)

[SQBsam]

does anybody else just laugh when somebody says:
"includes DRM (star thingy or whatever, you know, the one which everyone hates...) therefore i will pirate it as revenge!"

And then i buy the game and the DRM is like, you must set up an account, i set up an account and it goes, you are free to play, just login every time a patch is released.

These people just use it as a moral excuse for piracy, its sad.

hopefully steam will hold out against piracy, that and the fact that this is an online game, most of the time these are the hardest to pirate.

[ButchCassidy]

Piracy is preventable but the truth is that the gaming industry as a whole whilst bemoaning the losses in revenue due to piracy have never made any type of cohesive unified attempt to stop it.

It would appear that they prefer to take the losses rather than actually tackle the problem which I find extraordinary given the constant complaints about how piracy is ruining the industry and eroding the margins.

Steam games have been reasonably successful in securing some relief from piracy all be it not 100% and one does feel that should they really wish to both Valve and Steam could make piracy on their network nigh on impossible.

The only reason I can think of that is really preventing the industry as a whole is one of cost..For the most part they want cheap easy solutions but the truth is that the only way to prevent piracy is to spend some serious money and then get both hardware, software and ISP companies to buy into a new way of both releasing games and securing the content.

If they don't begin this process then i'm afraid things will only get worse as the internet grows and the world increasingly shrinks in this digital age.

[Das Bose]

Indeed, all I have seen DRM accomplish thus far is make buying and playing/using content increasingly difficult for honest customers. While the pirates are enjoying the same content for free, without any DRM to get in the way of their enjoyment.

[CopperHead]

I think the end argument is, who in their right mind would want to Pirate HOS, or hurt TWI's Sales?

TWI is like, one of the last bastions for PC Gaming... the community should set up some sort of... like.. "Help for poor Gamers" program, where people who really don't have the money to but the game can get a copy.


It's probably a really stupid idea.... but I want TWI to see every penny they can for this game.

[Colt .45 killer]

Originally Posted by CopperHead

I think the end argument is, who in their right mind would want to Pirate HOS, or hurt TWI's Sales?

TWI is like, one of the last bastions for PC Gaming... the community should set up some sort of... like.. "Help for poor Gamers" program, where people who really don't have the money to but the game can get a copy.


It's probably a really stupid idea.... but I want TWI to see every penny they can for this game.

help for games? pff half of the time pirates have the $$. or if you remember from the old RO discussion, someone linked to TPB's RO download link and all the text chat that followed. one of the 3 people trying to download the crack had spent over 8 hours trying to get it to work, at which point he could have gone and worked minimum wage for those 8 hours, bought the game and pocketed 40$.


I'm once again gonna voice my support for PKAGCP DRM system. It just works..

[CopperHead]

Originally Posted by Colt .45 killer

help for games? pff half of the time pirates have the $$. or if you remember from the old RO discussion, someone linked to TPB's RO download link and all the text chat that followed. one of the 3 people trying to download the crack had spent over 8 hours trying to get it to work, at which point he could have gone and worked minimum wage for those 8 hours, bought the game and pocketed 40$.


I'm once again gonna voice my support for PKAGCP DRM system. It just works..

I was mostly being facetious.

[Mormegil]

Originally Posted by VariousNames

If DRM was an effective solution to piracy, I don't think people would complain.

DRM effectively stops casual piracy. Think of the non-hardcore types who maybe play Deer Hunter. If there wasn't DRM, it would be easy enough to e-mail a copy to a friend. With it, they'd have to know about torrents or pirate sites.

Another issue is DRM with multiplayer games often requires pirates to play on less populated pirate servers. So that encourages people who want to play on populated servers to pay for the game.

[Colt .45 killer]

Originally Posted by Mormegil

DRM effectively stops casual piracy. Think of the non-hardcore types who maybe play Deer Hunter. If there wasn't DRM, it would be easy enough to e-mail a copy to a friend. With it, they'd have to know about torrents or pirate sites.

Another issue is DRM with multiplayer games often requires pirates to play on less populated pirate servers. So that encourages people who want to play on populated servers to pay for the game.

Unless its call of duty 4, where there were more pirated severs then regular ones...

or MW2 where I heard a fairy tale of there being pirate Dedicated servers, talk about a better product from a thief...


@Copperhead:
Yeah I was kinda being sarcastic myself...
That and plugging my earlier pun about Personal Kick A$$ Game Protection System... cmon its a large acronym and involves you kicking someone elses *** for a better cause, there should be people suggesting this as a KF perk already...

[Das Bose]

Originally Posted by Mormegil

DRM effectively stops casual piracy. Think of the non-hardcore types who maybe play Deer Hunter. If there wasn't DRM, it would be easy enough to e-mail a copy to a friend. With it, they'd have to know about torrents or pirate sites..

Or simply visit a car boot sale. DRM does nothing to stop piracy, people still lend each other films and music to make copies.

DRM is bad for everyone except the pirate, to pretend otherwise isn't helping.

[OneDuck]

Originally Posted by Colt .45 killer

Unless its call of duty 4, where there were more pirated severs then regular ones...

Need to chime in here because of this myth that seems to keep spreading.

This was started by infamous Robert Bowling and quickly debunked when MW2 was announced with all those lack of features, server admins quickly noted that the amount of pirated servers compared to legit servers didn't even reach 3% of the total number of legit servers.

[ButchCassidy]

Originally Posted by OneDuck

Need to chime in here because of this myth that seems to keep spreading.

This was started by infamous Robert Bowling and quickly debunked when MW2 was announced with all those lack of features, server admins quickly noted that the amount of pirated servers compared to legit servers didn't even reach 3% of the total number of legit servers.

Robert "two tongues" Bowling..Jesus if ever a guy needed to get his head out of his own a*** it's him.

You get the feeling that he's that stupid he actually believed the utter crap that spilled from his own mouth in the pre-launch lead in to MW2.
I lost count on just how many half truths and just damned right lies that guy spewed during the months leading upto MW2's release..lol

He is a walking advert on "HOW NOT" to be a community manager..

[Mormegil]

Originally Posted by Das Bose

Or simply visit a car boot sale. DRM does nothing to stop piracy, people still lend each other films and music to make copies.

DRM is bad for everyone except the pirate, to pretend otherwise isn't helping.

People don't readily lend video games with multiplayer keys out. At least, not if they want to keep playing them.

Most non-computer savvy friends of mine have no idea how to copy a DVD. Sure they can RIP a CD, but who the hell (besides my wife) still buys CDs?

You have to remember, not everyone is a hardcore gamer, or a computer guru. Not everyone goes to swap meets / car boot sales.

When you work for a living, time is more precious than a couple of dollars. If it's too much trouble to pirate something (say you don't know how, or it'll take a whole 5 minutes on Google), many people will gladly pay for a download. $0.99 is worth it for me to get an obscure song on iTunes. It's fast, it's cheap enough, and it's legit.

DRM won't stop piracy 100%, but again, it stops casual piracy.

[baff]

Originally Posted by MEGADETHTHRETH

I think Red Orchetra ostfronts best Drm was the bots themselves in singleplayer, who the hell would pirate the game and play with them stupid bots, either they would turn off the game and buy it for multiplayer or not buy it at all.

Or like me buy it for the co-op and find out that the bots suck so much I wasted my money.


It's a sort of Catch 22 from my angle.

If I have to buy more than one copy to play Co-op on my LAN there is every chance I won't buy it at all.
Steam is a prize pain in the arse, but some games it lets you play over the LAN in offline mode, and some rip off titles, it doesn't.

Obviously I would rather not have to dick around with Steam at all.
The fewer the clicks I have to make between my desktop and my loading screen the more likely I am to use the software. User friendly is a design priority in my book.

I think the idea of keeping the patches restricted to auto-updates from a login server is a smart method of anti-piracy.
Although typically once I have it installed, I prefer not to use patches at all. Set it up once on my LAN, and then, if it works, leave it well alone and just play it.



With regards to lending out MP keys... I typically do anytime I have ended up buying multiple copies. What's the point? I don't need 2-8 CDkeys. One is enough.

[Mormegil]

Originally Posted by baff

With regards to lending out MP keys... I typically do anytime I have ended up buying multiple copies. What's the point? I don't need 2-8 CDkeys. One is enough.

Let me qualify that as people who do NOT buy multiple copies. Maybe I'm the weirdo here, but I typically buy one copy of a game.

[mrwrong]

Originally Posted by OneDuck

Just a quick headsup that that article in the OP is filled with a lot of factual errors and misinformation. It's been debunked several times over the net and on forums like Slashdot.

As for piracy, I think Tripwire should do like the Minecraft author did, he said he didn't care for pirates since he didn't have time to spend on them, rather he should spend his time with his customers, the legit gamers, and he now makes $100K per day, sometimes going as high as $350K.

Care for the gamers, they're your market, not the pirates.

Acutally as a former PIRATE , i COMPLETELY agree with the article .. what world do you come from ? did you even READ it ?

I've been a gamer all my life , and i'm finally starting to see PC piracy take it's toll on the games that i like .. unless we find a way to stomp out piracy , there won't BE a games market anymore ..

i'm ALL for the most restrict DRM that this company can create being put on the disk ... all i ask is that you don't force us the actual paying consumers to always have an active interent connection to play the game , like assasians creed or silent hunter 5 ...

The best way to sell copies of the game is to make the DRM so hard to crack that people who are hungry for a new game will go out and BUY it .. if you read the article there was a form of DRM that held up for over a YEAR .. i'm sure that MANY of the pirates who would have stolen it , gave up and bought it ...which is what i would have done in my pirating days ..

because i now PAY for my games , i want to make sure that pirates are NOT enjoying what i the actual PAYING consumer have shelled out money to play .

PUT RESTRICTIVE DRM ....

don't listen to ANY other counter arguments that you read on this forum ... as long as i can play the game at home on my computer without an always active interent connection i'm fine with DRM , and i'm betting that 98% of paying consumers are fine with it as well .

[protector]

I think piracy is always an interesting subject because although we don't want to see it happen to our favourite games and people always bang on about how wrong it is(which it is) if HoS was released as a torrent now a few months(i hope) before release I bet everyone here would download it but not neccesarily admit to it.

People like breaking the rules especially if its fun...Its sad but its true.

[OneDuck]

Originally Posted by mrwrong

Acutally as a former PIRATE , i COMPLETELY agree with the article .. what world do you come from ? did you even READ it ?

Read it, dissected it, pure misinformation article. Linked to many sites in this thread debunking this article for the misinformation and bucket of fallacies it is. Are you affiliated with that site by any chance?

And putting more restrictive DRM as a solution? I'm sorry but Minecraft has no DRM and makes in excess of $100K per day. That's the best DRM in the world, no DRM whatsoever.

[Grobut]

Originally Posted by mrwrong

Acutally as a former PIRATE , i COMPLETELY agree with the article .. what world do you come from ? did you even READ it ?

You can agree with it all you want, but that doesen't stop it beeing outright wrong, as it has been quite thouroughly debunked by countless sources, and exposed for the blatant bias and misinformation that it is.

Also, you basically joined just to post this? And to recommend strict DRM? I see..

So what company is paying you to Astroturf thease forums? Securom? Starforce? Or maybe any of countless Interest groups who would love to spread this particular message..

Well Leat's hear it, who's filling out your paychecks?

[Mangeh]

Originally Posted by OneDuck

As for piracy, I think Tripwire should do like the Minecraft author did, he said he didn't care for pirates since he didn't have time to spend on them, rather he should spend his time with his customers, the legit gamers, and he now makes $100K per day, sometimes going as high as $350K.

Care for the gamers, they're your market, not the pirates.

This is really the correct way. Minecraft also has a price that encourages spontaneous buying. You don't often have to consider if you can spend 10€ or not, you can just buy the game, and if it's no good you haven't lost much. Digital distribution makes these lower prices a possibility, and they should definitely use that possibility. I bought RO at a low price, and a copy for a friend also. I buy most of my games over steam at sales etc.

A good price, good customer service (listening to peoples requests), and maybe some kind of cd-key system to play online (i feel this usually works well) is probably a good recipe to make people buy the game. Tripwire has fulfilled these demands very well so far IMO