Demolitions

[Yoshiro]

Demolitions Goal: Our goal with this perk was to reduce the ammount of pipebomb stacking, especially for those not of the demo perk.

Did we accomplish this goal? Did we not do enough? Did we go to far?



Also feel free to discuss the changes with your fellow testers in this thread.

[Yin]

Nope, the ammo refill pricing messed this up. On a non Demolitions you can buy two Pipebombs for 1500 pound, that's correct. If you drop one and refill one pipe with the refill function on the trader one pipe costs 400 pound, theoretically it should be 750 pound instead, not 400. Same for Demolitions, my level 1 Demolitions can buy two Pipebombs for 705 pounds, but refill one for only 88 pounds, thus on the Patriarch as Level 6 demo you are able to buy Pipebombs, cheaply fill them to 8, drop 7 so you have one left and just refill them for a very low price. Works with other perks too ofcourse.

TL;DR: Refilling is ALOT cheaper then rebuying Pipebombs.

PS: I'd also suggest reducing the Pipebomb price reduction on Demolitions by a little, they are still pretty cheap especially by abusing refilling.

[Fel]

The only thing that needs work on is pipebomb spamming.

Maybe have a $ increases on the pipes every time you re-fill the pipes ammo

[Yomommassis]

ill agree that now the initial buy cost is MUCH higher
but a lvl 6 demo will spawn with them, higher sell value, and the refill cost is the same

[Stilkdog]

Originally Posted by Yomommassis

ill agree that now the initial buy cost is MUCH higher
but a lvl 6 demo will spawn with them, higher sell value, and the refill cost is the same

Same. Also try to find a way to make them less spammy if possible as Demo's will just spam the whole map with them making it boring to play. Maybe reduce the amount the can hold?

[SMIFF]

What are the Pipe bombs for exactly? Massive damage to big guys? Or keeping the smaller guys in control? Both together is overpowered.

If it's massive damage to big guys then Demolitions doesn't need so many, I'd like to see his pipe bomb ammo reduced to at least 4 at level 6.

If it's crowd control then his Pipe bombs should keep the same amount of ammo, but with a rather substantial damage nerf, they don't need to do that much damage just to kill clots/gores/stalkers etc

[nutterbutter]

I really really really like the very high price for pipebombs, but refills are dirt cheap.

[9_6]

I don't like the high price.
Lowering the discount for them alone should do the trick.
It's not exactly like they were a steal for non-demos before.
Going overboard with their price like that just makes it almost impossible for low level demos to buy their tier 1 weapon.

As for spam, nope, as mentioned before the refill price is out of sync with the weapon price so spamming is still very possible.

[Compass]

Have Pipe Bombs only blow up to FPs, Pat, Scrake, and Husk. Not mobs of enemies. There's normal grenade launcher for that. Welding a door and planting 2 Pipes behind it is pretty easy way to get massive overkill.

[keldi]

I don't think demos should have a pipe bomb discount at all. They should be trump cards and/or "oh ****" devices, not just thrown around willy-nilly.

My opinion on pipes is below; I'm sure there are problems with my logic, though, so my apologies in advance if the idea is idiotic.


First, set the maximum deployed pipes to 2 for each player, with maybe one held at a time, including for demos. That way it you couldn't just have one guy with enough pipes to kill every FP and scrake in the wave on his own.

Next, I think pipe bombs should have a smaller radius, and much less damage. (With a small base cost reduction to compensate somewhat, of course.) Enough to kill stuff bloat and below, in a diameter about the same as a pair of sliding doors.

Then, give demos three things:
* Increased pipe detonation radius.
* Increased pipebomb damage. (But not so much that it completely kills scrakes/FPs?)
* Pipebomb-specific damage resistance that scales with their perk level, so that if they're at full health, and at least half-way outside the explosion radius, they can barely survive without armor. (Or, just cap pipebomb damage to demos at 90 after resistance; that'd be easier.)

That way, their pipebombs are noticeably more effective while retaining the same cost and scarcity. They'd still be useful when used by normal players in an oh-**** situation, just not one-hit FP-killing wonders. (The reduced damage radius would also mean they might survive the explosion when falling back.) The pipe-resistance would also mean the demolitionist could leave one at a fallback position without guaranteeing his own death from the increased radius/damage.

[Sammers]

I said no. Refill cheapness needs sorting. Other than that, it's fine.

[Fedorov]

Tested in suicidal.

I'd say yes, at least for the non demo perks, the prices are almost prohibitive.

For demo, the buying price is fine, but the refill still seems too cheap.

I'll vote yes, as its closer to a yes than a no.



Haven't properly tested in a 6 man environment team though

[Xienen]

Even though the polling on this is close, it seems we've gotten a clear message of what we should do with the Demo next, which is fix the refill issue. We will also be reducing the amount of money that you get overall, which will make it harder for everyone to buy pipebombs, as it should be mostly demo buying them.