Beach landings.

[dontfeedtheanimal]

Here's my question: How many maps will start off with beach landings?

I ask this because I don't want to have to do more than one. I know it's the Pacific theater and that's how it was primarily done while island hopping. It's just that after storming the beach at Normandy what seems like a thousand times over while playing other games, for me, the beach landing gets tiresome.

Thoughts?

[Nestor Makhno]

It is almost impossible to make beach landings work in any kind of realistic fashion in the context of an MP game.

[Zetsumei]

Originally Posted by Nestor Makhno

It is almost impossible to make beach landings work in any kind of realistic fashion in the context of an MP game.

What about AI controlled / mover based landing craft. Aka rather than waiting 30 seconds to re-spawn you re-spawn immediately but are cruising along a predefined path at the sea. Making you pretty much spawn effectively once the doors of the landing craft open.

Being driven by a truck or a boat to the action, in general would be a lot nicer that watching a counter. It won't work in most spawn situations. But for a few it could add nicely to the atmosphere.

[Slyk]

At this point in time, I can't confirm nor deny much... Personal opinion: I hate beach landings, as Tony noted above, it is too damn hard to do 'right' until we have server capacity of many hundreds of players.

So, what's that mean for RS? Most likely, your sorry butt is already on the beach, your nose pressed into the sand as your SL yells at you to get your *** moving and push inland. The Japanese opposed very few landings, not many like what people think of on Europe's D-Day. Sporadic artillery fire? Yes. The occasional sniper bullet? Yes. A few cases of Japanese trenches a few feet from the seawall? Yes. That's historically accurate. What we end up with in our specific levels. . . to be determined . . . or more like "to be shared" at a later time.

[Psycho_Sam]

Originally Posted by Slyk

At this point in time, I can't confirm nor deny much... Personal opinion: I hate beach landings, as Tony noted above, it is too damn hard to do 'right' until we have server capacity of many hundreds of players.

So, what's that mean for RS? Most likely, your sorry butt is already on the beach, your nose pressed into the sand as your SL yells at you to get your *** moving and push inland. The Japanese opposed very few landings, not many like what people think of on Europe's D-Day. Sporadic artillery fire? Yes. The occasional sniper bullet? Yes. A few cases of Japanese trenches a few feet from the seawall? Yes. That's historically accurate. What we end up with in our specific levels. . . to be determined . . . or more like "to be shared" at a later time.

Well I guess that depends, typically in the early campaigns of the Pacific (Cape Glouchester & Guadalcanal) the Japanese were dug in practically on the shoreline and tried to Banzai charge the Americans back into the sea.

However from Peleliu onwards they learnt from their mistakes and defended in depth and let the Americans come ashore largely unopposed except for artillery shelling and aerial attacks. The hilly terrain helped them massively and the Americans had to fight hard for every yard. They repeated this again on Okinawa with some pretty horrific results for the Americans, of course the Japanese lost a huge amount of men too.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

While I wouldn't mind a beach landing map done right where there was a good stuggle, yeah, there are so many more interesting and I imagine fun possibilities out there to do.

[Nestor Makhno]

My main objection is how to do continuous respawns right. OK - first wave on a full server, great - you get 20 guys charging up the beach after a dramatic approach.

Next wave, what happens? Landing craft at the beach evaporate or do some stupid about turn to get out of the way and 3 guys spawn on 'second wave' - immersion factor zero, drama zero, feebleness to the max.

[dontfeedtheanimal]

Originally Posted by Nestor Makhno

My main objection is how to do continuous respawns right. OK - first wave on a full server, great - you get 20 guys charging up the beach after a dramatic approach.

Next wave, what happens? Landing craft at the beach evaporate or do some stupid about turn to get out of the way and 3 guys spawn on 'second wave' - immersion factor zero, drama zero, feebleness to the max.

Don't forget the constant slaughter of the landing troops.

[Slyk]

I know, I know! We'll write up a special game type JUST for beach landings. It will force only 5% of the players to the defending team and the rest will attack. We'll have bots drive the LVTs for us and then as the mass of on-rushing attackers take the beach we'll just flip the first few to die over to the defenders and continue to do so as the attackers move inland far enough that we can more or less even up the teams.







not

but damn interesting idea for a community mod...

[Zetsumei]

Well unbalanced teams for public is something that has long been suggested for ro. And could see its usage in any map where the attackers should attack with bigger numbers against a well fortified position. It won't only be usable for beach landings.

[Reise]

Well what about those landing boats that got stuck on the shallow reefs far off shore?

Would make for a neat attack/defense map. And you wouldn't have to worry much about dramatic entrances.

[Xendance]

The ones that got stuck were shot to pieces as far as I know :P

[SchutzeSepp]

from the research i did i was surprised to see how the japanese strategy oftenly wasn't to stop the allies at the beaches, but to let them come inland. sometimes only a few dozen meters, or sometimes dozens of miles before opposing resistance. artillery seems to have been generously used on the beaches though.

[SiC-Disaster]

Originally Posted by SchutzeSepp

from the research i did i was surprised to see how the japanese strategy oftenly wasn't to stop the allies at the beaches, but to let them come inland. sometimes only a few dozen meters, or sometimes dozens of miles before opposing resistance. artillery seems to have been generously used on the beaches though.

This was a tactic they also used during feudal times, apparently.
They wouldnt rely on walls to keep their enemies outside a castle, but they'd rather open the doors to let them in.
Basically their way of saying *insert KF accent here* "Cmon if you think you're hard enough!"
Big siegeworks not needed

[Nimsky]

Pffff, beach landings are awesome. If you've gotten bored of them it just means you've been playing the CoD's and MoH's a lot. Personally, I've only experienced about two 'mass' beach landings in FPS games. No, I haven't played that DH map.

I think beach landings should be implemented. Not just because they're a lot of fun (if done right), it's also historically accurate. It certainly beats *pop* magically spawning on the beach. Just because CoD portrayed beach landings doesn't mean that it shouldn't be in RS.

The only problem is implementing it in a realistic and fun way.

I think Zet's suggestion might work. When you die, you immediately spawn in a new landing craft that can't be destroyed. As you hit the beach, you get about 5 seconds of invulnerability so you can find cover. The landing craft soon disappears to make room for the next wave. Depending on the amount of landing craft and the average amount of players that die every 30 seconds, you will always hit the beach with at least two teammates. And if the beach isn't too long and wide, the fighting will still be very centralized. Think of the beach in The Pacifics' Peleliu landing, not Saving Private Ryan. For a large beach you'd need a 200 player server, I agree, but that problem can be solved by making the beaches a lot smaller.

[Jooce]

Originally Posted by Slyk

I know, I know! We'll write up a special game type JUST for beach landings. It will force only 5% of the players to the defending team and the rest will attack. We'll have bots drive the LVTs for us and then as the mass of on-rushing attackers take the beach we'll just flip the first few to die over to the defenders and continue to do so as the attackers move inland far enough that we can more or less even up the teams.







not

but damn interesting idea for a community mod...

my idea...

Marines approach beach under cover of intense naval gunfire, defending troops are suppressed OR aiming is impaired significantly making it very hard to shoot at the attacking marines until beachhead is secured or point A is secured (whatever) .. once point A is secured all marines respawn at point A.. meanwhile the beach is randomly peppered by japanese AI controlled mortar/artillery fire . this could work if done correctly ! i have played beach maps in dod source and it was lots of fun. please consider just doing one map with a beach landing !

[Actin]

Originally Posted by Slyk

At this point in time, I can't confirm nor deny much... Personal opinion: I hate beach landings, as Tony noted above, it is too damn hard to do 'right' until we have server capacity of many hundreds of players.

So, what's that mean for RS? Most likely, your sorry butt is already on the beach, your nose pressed into the sand as your SL yells at you to get your *** moving and push inland. The Japanese opposed very few landings, not many like what people think of on Europe's D-Day. Sporadic artillery fire? Yes. The occasional sniper bullet? Yes. A few cases of Japanese trenches a few feet from the seawall? Yes. That's historically accurate. What we end up with in our specific levels. . . to be determined . . . or more like "to be shared" at a later time.

So respawn in prone stance is confirmed?

[Slyk]

No. Not at all. Not even a concept. Figure of speech. Ultimately players will just to to suck it up and wait to see what is released. There are infinite scenarios to choose from and that choice drives the start position for both sides among all the other factors.

[heady89]

I'm in favor for beach landings, i've always enjoyed them even if its hard to present them in a truly realistic fashion. Some of the custom beach maps for DH/RO have been excellent and it's truly a special feeling to both storm and defend one.

I'll be happy to see one in Rising Storm if it happens.

[Nezzer]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/imag...lingrad/11.jpg