Lots of ideas split 3: Perks and weapons

[Aze]

Originally Posted by Zeron

I love how everyone in this thread seems to think tripwire will actually be implementing this infamous gunslinger perk. It just isn't needed, and the amount of "work"(or so TWI says) involved would be too much for them considering they are too absorbed in RO:HOS.

We are just hopeful
But, if the Gunslinger aint added, just change all "move the handguns over to the Gunslinger" with "remove handgun bonuses from the Sharpie like it was in the old days"

[imonoz]

Also add more ammo to the LAR: 120 - 150.

Maybe Support specialist could deal out ammo? (Ammo box to the Trader, weight like 10 but like 5 for support spcialist or something) cost around 2000. he could share out ammo to his riends i dont know..

ALSO: If thew Gunslinger perk wouldnt be included, I think the handguns woulde be shared equaly to each perk with the bonuses based on what level they are, .. Then the demo could actually use a gun as a back up weap

[Aze]

Originally Posted by imonoz

Also add more ammo to the LAR: 120 - 150.

Maybe Support specialist could deal out ammo? (Ammo box to the Trader, weight like 10 but like 5 for support spcialist or something) cost around 2000. he could share out ammo to his riends i dont know..

ALSO: If thew Gunslinger perk wouldnt be included, I think the handguns woulde be shared equaly to each perk with the bonuses based on what level they are, .. Then the demo could actually use a gun as a back up weap

More ammo to the LAR, perhaps, perhaps not. Considering the weight changes suggested and so on, i think it can stay quite similar. (Maybe 110 extra shots for a total of 120 would be ok i guess. But not more imo.)

Regarding Support handing out ammo, look in my first link in my sig (Active Perk Power thread). It's about giving each perk one active ability / item, where my suggestion for Support was dropping ammo boxes. Just fyi

Regarding handguns being shared equally, i think TWI have also considered that, making the handguns true sidearms. And some perks would get slightly more bonus on them (ok, so "equally" :P) as it fits them more or something. A good thought nonetheless imonoz

[Salad Snake]

Personally I don't see an issue with handguns being Sharpie weapons but I believe that akimbo weapons should be another perks (I'm leaning toward Medic or Commando).


I don't really think you need so much ammo for LAR, the rate at which it reloads (even with bonuses) precludes burning through ammunition quickly. If there's any gun that I think deserves more ammo, it's the pump shottie (more base ammo that is, not talking about the shotgun ammo bonus for SS).

[Aze]

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

I don't really think you need so much ammo for LAR, the rate at which it reloads (even with bonuses) precludes burning through ammunition quickly. If there's any gun that I think deserves more ammo, it's the pump shottie (more base ammo that is, not talking about the shotgun ammo bonus for SS).

About the Shotguns ammo, i think that is what balances the perk up, although it is quite low sometimes (especially on Suicical).

The Hunting Shotty's ammo is fine though, imo.
The AA12 maybe could need one more mag?
And the regular Shotty could need 8 or 16 more shells?
But not more than that imo.

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by Aze

About the Shotguns ammo, i think that is what balances the perk up, although it is quite low sometimes (especially on Suicical).

The Hunting Shotty's ammo is fine though, imo.
The AA12 maybe could need one more mag?
And the regular Shotty could need 8 or 16 more shells?
But not more than that imo.

Yeah the Hunting Shotty's ammo is actually really generous imo. The AA-12 is fine, it shouldn't be your main trash-clearing weapon anyway. The pump shottie is the only one I would think needs on or two more "mags".

I would think that the long reload balances it enough, less ammo only causes you to have to hunt around for more.

[Foxyfired]

Remove bodyshot damage to sharpshooter.

[Aze]

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

Yeah the Hunting Shotty's ammo is actually really generous imo. The AA-12 is fine, it shouldn't be your main trash-clearing weapon anyway. The pump shottie is the only one I would think needs on or two more "mags".

I would think that the long reload balances it enough, less ammo only causes you to have to hunt around for more.

While i agreed on what you are saying, the AA-12 could use one more mag, and i'll explain why. Its shots are weaker than the regular Shotgun, it costs a ****load of money, weighs alot (just like the other 2) and its only real power is the reloadspeed and the semi/auto (which is very powerful though). So ONE more mag would be very nice, in particular for Suicidal diffs. Cuz even if you use the regular Shottie as the trash clearer, and even if you get one or 2 more "mags" for it, you are definitely gonna run out of ammo. Then you have to rely on the AA12 (or HS).

That's my personal opinion though, i might be very wrong ofc ^^

Remove bodyshot damage from sharpshooter.

Foxyfire, that's what you meant, right?
This has been discussed to death in this thread already. There are 2 opinions: Remove the regular damage entirely, or half it down to only 30%. What TWI actually does though is a whole different thing. We can only state these opinions, and we have already. Alot!

[CandleJack]

Originally Posted by Aze

While i agreed on what you are saying, the AA-12 could use one more mag, and i'll explain why. Its shots are weaker than the regular Shotgun, it costs a ****load of money, weighs alot (just like the other 2) and its only real power is the reloadspeed and the semi/auto (which is very powerful though). So ONE more mag would be very nice, in particular for Suicidal diffs. Cuz even if you use the regular Shottie as the trash clearer, and even if you get one or 2 more "mags" for it, you are definitely gonna run out of ammo. Then you have to rely on the AA12 (or HS).

That's my personal opinion though, i might be very wrong ofc ^^

First off i'd like to say that person opinion is a little redundant. If it's your opinion then it's already personal.

Now that's out the way: I agree totally. Cos a "mag" or two of Shotgun shells could go a long way to making my primary Support weapon last a whole wave. I could live with finishing a wave with the AA12, if only the 12 gauge buckshot was actually the same as the 12 gauge buckshot the Shotgun uses.

[Entangler]

I don't think more ammo is what the AA-12 needs. What it does need is a couple more pellets per shot, so that it isn't horribly inefficient with the ammo it already has.

[Aze]

Originally Posted by Entangler

I don't think more ammo is what the AA-12 needs. What it does need is a couple more pellets per shot, so that it isn't horribly inefficient with the ammo it already has.

Adding more pellets increases its damage, which it doesnt need. Its problem is that it doesn't last too long. One more mag would help with that.

Although, if adding one more pellet would happen (not more than that imo), the damage needs to be divided evenly so it doesn't get more powerful. That would be ok i guess, and that can happen on top of one more mag

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by Aze

Adding more pellets increases its damage, which it doesnt need. Its problem is that it doesn't last too long. One more mag would help with that.

Although, if adding one more pellet would happen (not more than that imo), the damage needs to be divided evenly so it doesn't get more powerful. That would be ok i guess, and that can happen on top of one more mag

I definitely wouldn't mind one or two more pellets for the AA-12, so long as total damage remains the same.

[Aze]

Originally Posted by CandleJack

First off i'd like to say that person opinion is a little redundant. If it's your opinion then it's already personal.

Now that's out the way: I agree totally. Cos a "mag" or two of Shotgun shells could go a long way to making my primary Support weapon last a whole wave. I could live with finishing a wave with the AA12, if only the 12 gauge buckshot was actually the same as the 12 gauge buckshot the Shotgun uses.

Lol i first thought you were gonna do a total bash-post there xD
But thanks for agreeing on this utmost personal issue

I definitely wouldn't mind one or two more pellets for the AA-12, so long as total damage remains the same.

Yeah, that's what i meant Salad Snake

[Compass]

The AA-12 always feels like it comes up short. Surviving an 8-10 level even on 6P normal without reaching last mag is hard, if not impossible, even when managing with a pump shotty backup at Level 4.

[Undedd Jester]

Originally Posted by Compass

The AA-12 always feels like it comes up short. Surviving an 8-10 level even on 6P normal without reaching last mag is hard, if not impossible, even when managing with a pump shotty backup at Level 4.

Nah AA12 is well balanced, if a little overly expensive. It's supposed to be a mow down weapon, or a sustained high DPS weapon. Low ammo makes it not so it doesn't mean the Support can rape everything effortlessly.

M14 could do with some kind of similar downside.

[thejiggliestpuff]

Originally Posted by Undedd Jester

Nah AA12 is well balanced, if a little overly expensive. It's supposed to be a mow down weapon, or a sustained high DPS weapon. Low ammo makes it not so it doesn't mean the Support can rape everything effortlessly.

M14 could do with some kind of similar downside.

m14 really just needs a much lower firerate and it should be fine

[Olivier]

Originally Posted by thejiggliestpuff

m14 really just needs a much lower firerate and it should be fine

And keep all the ammo

You sir must be out of your mind, the M14 as almost the same amount of bullets than the SCAR.

M14 = over 250 bullets
LAR = 80 bullets?
Xbow = 40 bolts

[CandleJack]

Originally Posted by thejiggliestpuff

m14 really just needs a much lower firerate and it should be fine

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by Undedd Jester

Nah AA12 is well balanced, if a little overly expensive. It's supposed to be a mow down weapon, or a sustained high DPS weapon. Low ammo makes it not so it doesn't mean the Support can rape everything effortlessly.

M14 could do with some kind of similar downside.

/Wall-o-text ahead/


I know the obvious answer is to simply reduce number of mags, but for creativity's sake, I'll put forth another idea:

- Amount of magazines
- Mag size (to 10 shots)
+ Recoil (enough that you still need to re-center aim quickly even as Sharpie, so by quite a bit)
+ Per shot damage (though it still requires multiple for Scrake/FP)
- Reload time slightly (perhaps?)

The recoil would make it more difficult to use (though more fun if you handle it skillfully), as well as make firing the gun more deliberate instead of "Point at head and mash mouse1". The decreased mag size makes it weaker toward crowd-control though still better then the Crossbow.

I also float the idea of slightly quicker reload because the user will be reloading more often. It would also create a false sense of power (the same that the AA12 has), where the user feels like they are more capable of eliminating threats then they are, though in reality we all know what happens when you use the AA12 too much....you quickly run out of ammo, and are basically screwed. Hence, why I say it's a "false" sense of power. This would in-turn lead the M14 to be a "only use when necessary" gun, much like the AA12 and Xbow. You'd be able to tell the skilled player because they would save the M14 for big targets/panic situations, instead of being like those AA12 spammers you see sometimes.

So basically, capable of downing Scrakes and FP's, but easier to mess up with then the Xbow. However, it has better crowd-control then the Xbow, but still not as good as a Commando weapon. I leave the crowd-control in because, for better or worse, that's the purpose of the weapon it seems. I feel I can't take crowd-control away from it without completely changing the gun. However, I can make the gun worse at it (by reducing it's mag ammo and number of mags), and make the gun harder to use (but more rewarding), by upping the damage but severely increasing the recoil as well. This would also prevent everyone and their aunt taking the M14 whenever they can afford it, as it would be extremely hard to use unperked due to insane amounts of recoil.

Honestly I have no opinion either way on keeping the laser sight or not, but I do think the M14 should have a better ironsight at least, so people are encouraged to use it instead of discouraged by how frustrating it is to see through.


TL: DR- Please read what I have put forth. If I just outline the stats you'll say it's still OP, but if you look at my explanation you'll see just how I think the limits of the gun will nigh-force players to use it skillfully (or avoid it in favor of the Xbow) BUT not nerf it into oblivion, and make skillful use of it as...well, useful, as a skillful Xbow user, though not precisely in the same manner (which is a good thing as it adds variety).

Yeah even that ended up being long-winded....

[CandleJack]

I would have to say, to keep with a lower mag size, the M14 looks like this:




A battle rifle, used by commandos (not the perk) would not realistically have a 10 round mag without some kind of optical sight to increase its range.

IMO the M14 needs an at least half-way complete overhaul to become more balanced and realistic. Not the least an increase in recoil or a lower recoil bonus to make it harder to spam. A decrease in ammo is a must to make it more balanced and realistic. I'd say increase the weight to 8 or so and make it have 8 + 1 mags. This would be balanced.

Spamming this new M14 would require immense skill to pull off; or at least some degree of knowledge.