Class selection based on queues

[Murphy]

There´s a thread about the problem that people with 512MBRam suffer from much longer loading times and this means they miss an interessting part of the game (the beginning) and, much more important, they are bound to play as Schütze/strelok because all the more valuable classes are already full.
There have been various suggestions about how to solve this problem in the past, and I´m sure this one here was suggested once, too (but I couldn´t find it).
As it didn´t get enough attention (otherwhise it would be already implemented in the game) here it is again:


The idea is, that you (the player) chose any class you want.
If there´s a slot available, you get the class.
If there´s no slot available, you will spawn as Schütze/strelok and are set into a queue for the class you chose in the first place.

If someone of this class dies, you get his slot, the next time you respawn.

If there are more people waiting in the queue, the one who entered the queue first gets the desired class and all the other ones move up.


This system would have three advantages over the current system:
1.) People with longer loading times get the chance to play as classes other than Schütze/Strelok.
2.) If someone sucks as a sniper/mg/officer he is replaced quickly because he will die sooner or later. Better players stay alive longer and thus the more powerfull classes are more often in the hands of skilled players.
3.) People have another reason to defend their lifes. If you die, you lose your class => you try not to die => suppressive fire becomes more powerfull etc.

Are there any disadvantages or arguments against this system?


PS: There are some posts I don´t want to see in this thread:
"get more RAM"
"various tips and tricks to shorten the loading times"
"rifleman is the best class anyway"

Now, please discuss.

[Oleg]

I support your suggestions 100%.

I can't believe the game/mod got this far into development without mod veterans raising hell about this issue ages ago already. I play the game for like 2 days and incosistency and unfairness of current "RAM based" class selection system are glaringly obvious. Something must be done about this.

[kabex]

I fully support this suggestion also, let's hope the Devs implement this system in an upcoming patch.

[Felix Ostheim]

Interesting, this could work.

[Fennich_FJR6]

Great idea

lets hope it gets implemented

[10-78 BusterKing]

I also support this idea 100%


Lets make it so everyone can have fun with this game!

[SirNooblet]

Here's what I don't get

Oh man I love WWII games but ewwww I have to be a riflemen why can't i have automatic rifles with thermoimaging scopes

The mauser and the mosins were the backbones of these armies

I'm glad to see a game that emphasises rifle combat, and I don't like that it is the most despised class.

This is pretty much the post you didn't want to see, but I have to say it, because this general attitude towards rifles displeases me.

[Xendance]

Finally someone came up with an idea

[Molnies]

I support this idea as well. I myself load the maps fast enough to be there from the beginning, but I still always play as a bolt rifle soldier, simply because I like that the most - but I think that people that have slower computers and want to play as a special soldier should be able to do so.

[Innociv]

it's not that bad of an idea at all .. alot better than all the other "ZOMG I CANT GET AWP!!!!" ones, untill you think of it for more than a minute.
But I think people should get to hold the class for 2 or 3 lives, not just one.

And the thing is, this isn't really going to work to well with komanders. No ones thought of that after all these supportive posts?

Well i wouldn't mind this put in as long as the komander can't be queued. You shouldn't have komander switching around. A good komander should stay the komander and no one will convince be otherwise.
I'd prefer it not be happening every one death either, like it be 2 or 3 instead.

I'd also be afraid of everyone on the attacking side to be to scared to attack if this was implimented, because they wouldn't want to lsoe their class.

It could end up with every map ending as a stalemate or the defending side always winning.

There are quite a few flaws.

[MILK]

this idea is not so good as it can look from beginning...
firstly... in case there is something like a que for Sniper and you are the one who should be sniper after actual sniper dies... but what if he dies and I will stay alive so another player in a que will become sniper... and I can be jumped in this way many times... I would be pretty pissed because this would not be fair either

secondly....why should I be punished when I die just because someone else want to be Sniper... even in case there is very good sniper in game it is always only matter of time to be killed... lets assume this change become... if player that just became sniper will know where as sniper is needed...

thirdly... when some new player will choose sniper (and ofcourse he can sux with that)... how can he learn to be good sniper when his class will be changed every time he dies (and he will die very soon if he is new to RO)

lastly... if enough players will like this idea I would suggest someone to create mutator but NOT change game itself... and in case this will be done I would suggest something like a "3 lifes" for a class before change because beeing changed after first death would be pretty bad...it is so easy to die so soon after respawn and it can take few attmpts to get to good position.

I was using sniper for my opinion but this can be used for any "wanted" class - Kommandier, Tank classes or even Avtomatchiks ofcourse...

[Dokteur Kill]

My suggestion: during the 30 second period before the map starts, you can select any class you want. When the round actually begins, who gets to play a certain class is randomized between those who have selected that class. Those who do not get to play as their chosen class spawn as riflemen.

Well, one exception: those who have selected tank commander and do not get it will instead spawn as tank crew, unless that class also is "full".

[Innociv]

also what happens when the sniper dies, and you're next in line but live for a few more minutes? OR all people do? So it goes to the next person maybe, well what if that next person lives for a very long itme?

Or do you go without the sniper or komandir for a few minutes waiting for hte enxt in line to die? Not having a good sniper or komandir for a few minutes can mean that is the few minutes in which your side loses.

It's a flawed idea. Looks good at first, but is flawed in so many ways.

If you would use teamwork then you'd be around teamates that die and drop weapons to replace your rifle.
But the rifle pwns. I do better with it than any gun except sniper. I get more kills with teh bolt acitons than semi-autos aswell.

[Hyperion2010]

The problem here is that many people who play RO are weapon specialists. I for one am an STG specialist, however that does not me that I ALWAYS get the stg (I usually am the first one to load the map), same with the mp40, I like it and am very good with it, but that doesnt mean that I always pick it. I will often pick rifleman because that is the best class for the way I want to play and how my team is doing.

Depriving these specialists of their weapons so that someone who wants to "try them out" can use them will only hurt the ability of the team to function.

Also, if you have 2 tankers who really help the team in a stug you dont want one or both of them to be kicked off so that someone can have their "fair" chance at it, its just bad for the team.

If you want a weapon just ask, if they say no, well, go find it when they die and pick it up .

Also Ramm said that they are thinking about making it so that server admins can set it so that you have to rechoose classes between rounds.

Personally, if someone is doing well in a class I would rather have them there even if I want to use it because they are helpling the team. I many think I can help more, but thats BS because you dont know how you will do and there is proof that they ARE doing well.

[Murphy]

If people finaly fear to die its all the better. All those rambos that are left can look forward to rambo with a rifle...
And the fear of death is something that is underrepresented in the game anyway. There is not even a point penalty for dying.
If the system was as strict as to let the next one have your slot as soon as you die once, it would greatly enhance the fear of death and thus enable the use of real world tactics to a greater extent since those tactics rely on that factor heavily.

I don´t see a problem with the commander either. If he´s a good commander, he survives. If he can´t play too well, someone else can try to be a better one.
Besides, if noone else wants this class (for example if they think the commanders does a good job) he won´t get replaced anyway.
And you have to think about that: Now, if you are a strelok but you want an smg, you are somehow attracted to the commander-class although you don´t really want to be commander (because you know you are not that good). If this system ever gets implemented, there is practicaly no reason to take the commander class, just because of its weaponry because you can get that anyway, sooner or later.

And people who are better with a certain weapon will survive longer than people who suck with it.
As it is now, there´s also the possibility that some n00b gets a sniper, because his parents baught him a better rig. Now, what can you do about him besides asking him to give his class away?
With this system he will die sooner or later, and someone else can take the weapon.
And if you think someone´s doing a good job, simply don´t pick his class. You are not forced to stand in the queue as you can Schütze/Strelok anytime.

btw. No way did I say that the rifle is a bad weapon. Ro is one of the rare games were a rifle is actualy usefull. Its just that it gets boring if you have to take it everytime! Imagine a nice red wine. If that´s all you would get to drink for several weeks you´d think it sucks too.

[Innociv]

fearing to die is good.. but not fearing so much that everyone stays at their spawn.

and living logner doens't make you good. Alto of newbs live a long time because they enver expsoe themselves t even kill people, or they wonder off the wrong directions on the map.

Sorry, but this idea fails. The people who nkow what they're talking about have showed why.

[Petrovich]

It will maybe work but look when ur a sniper and u get sniped u want to go back to that ''area'' so u can try it again if u gotta wait for like em 4 times u get bored and that enemy is already gone not that much fun.


What maybe will work is : when a noob get sniper class and dont kill some1 for like 15 minuts and get killed like 20 times it is an usseles sniper so a system for when u a : sniper/officer/machinegunner and u get killed 5 times WITHOUT any kills that u loose ur class and spawn as a rifleman next time it will be a bit more handy ( ofcourse u cant choose that class again for 5 minuts

I think this will work a bit more.

[Petrovich]

And about that always being rifle man isnt that bad ^^ most soldiers in the army hed a rifle all the time. ( if they where a rifle man )

or maybe this will work :

Auto class picking u dont know wich class u will be and if ur score keeps going good u can be that class if u suck and only get killled without any kills u will lose the class and go to rifleman

[SirNooblet]

Originally Posted by Murphy

btw. No way did I say that the rifle is a bad weapon. Ro is one of the rare games were a rifle is actualy usefull. Its just that it gets boring if you have to take it everytime! Imagine a nice red wine. If that´s all you would get to drink for several weeks you´d think it sucks too.

any alcoholic knows that you stick to one booze and thats it. Why? Because it is 1) familiar 2)effective 3) reliable 4)predictable.

This debate is pretty much the debate between capitalism and communism. Some people want fairness and equality for all, and some people know that there is no way to implement it, and the rich buttholes with the best stuff will always get to have first dibs on everything.

I love the rifle so its very hard for me to see the problem. I love this game because it focuses on rifle combat. And I'm usually higher on the scoreboard as a rifleman than the snipers and the commanders and the g43s and stgs, because of both caps and kills. So whatever, you guys work it out. I'm fine playing any class.

[Kuruchev]

Consider someone in a support role (MG, Sniper, rifleman sniping): if this person is performing his duty, he won't be dying much, just because his position generally requires staying out of firefights.

Now consider someone in an assault role (usually, but not necessarily, an SMG): if that person is doing his job, he will probably be dying a lot, simply from the high likelyhood of being sniped, ambushed, etc. while moving on a position.

Also, consider the "lamer factor":

Enemy sniper is devastating a team, but is finally killed.

Lamer switches teams, throws himself into the queue.

Lamer gets sniper, wanders around for a while staying out of combat.

Enemy sniper has been neutralized, but lamer hasn't really done anything wrong.