Authentic Storyline PLEASE !

[nascher]

If you ,tripwire interactive, make a german singleplayer-campaign, then PLEASE dont make it so theatrical and stupid like Call of Duty.

Orient on the true history and please make look the Germans more based on history and let the player understand their actings.

example1) the polish war campaign.
yes germany invaded poland. but what was the reason ?
they provoked germany 3 times with threathings of war, abused their minorities over years (especially germans and ukrains) and never wanted to debate about a peaceful way of coexistence in contrast to germany.
much decisive details speak for it.

example2)
The most things people think to know about Germany in WW2 and before are just lied and learned prejudices.
A german soldier has honor and fought for freedom of people.
Not for nothing their enemys said to them that they where the best soldiers humankind had ever seen.
Inhabitants of France and the black community in europe said they got handled better from the german occupying forces then later from their allied.
They fought for their freedom they got back from the germans between war.
in nearly all countries(especially east countries), which got freed by germany the volk was cheering to them and a lot of foreign regiments fought with and for germany only got their hope as payment.
Of course you always will find some small exceptions if you want to find them but the big mass of the volks in the East saw the germans as their salvation from the Communist and thought with them for a their own state without UDSSR.This volks got totally extincted by UDSSR in and after WW2.

i dont want a "pro-nazi-scandal-index-game", no. it should be historically based on FACTS and not on lies and prejudices like the most of it what you hear today about this times.
dont hide the good sides of the old Germany in the campaign! let the player understand his actings!
dont let him feel "yeah im a badass nazi boy, lets kick some civilian asses before we shoot some bolshewiks" we had enough of that in COD.
let him more feel and understand this time in its full variety! when the germans invaded poland they knew they fought for justice and against the polan terror! let the player know all that if he plays the campaign.
SO:
dont make a BLACK VS WHITE, GOOD VS EVIL game.
make it more like BLUE VS RED, GERMANY VS UDSSR if you understand what i mean.

If you wanna hear more such stories like the reason of poland campaign just ask me.
Lets discuss this here together.

[doomis]

Okay, things are not as they are taught in school, but lets not try to just make a cod campaign with the protagonists switched. Sure there were people back then who saw things more "honorably or knightly" because it was their family tradition to join the army or something along those lines, but definitely german soldiers were not any more special than the rest (not talking about training etc, but the way someone sees things when he is trying to survive). In the end, the basic instincts of survival are all the same for everyone.

It then gets down to the education and ethicals of each individual. For example in my country, Greece, occupation was very harsh, and there were some cases of whole villages exterminated, so the general opinion is exactly the opposite of what you said in the OP. But my uneducated grandfather, coming from some out of the map village up in the mountains knows only one thing about the occupation: germans were, unlike italians, the only ones paying for goods they took like eggs or milk and were real gentlemen. So you will never hear him complain about the occupation, since none of the germans he met were the cold hearted nazis that most think the german army was full of.

In conclusion, Im trying to say that it will be far from reality to portrait germans as crusaders (as cod 5 did for the russians) since there were many cases of both really good and really bad soldiers, but instead a normal situation would be more suitable, showing the hardships those people went through when certain victory became tragic defeat but of course throwing some awesome action in there

EDIT: Generally I agree with your post, but you only said the one side of the story, the other side is that for example those eastern countries that greeted germans as liberators were then very often treated the same way or worse as by the Stalin regime.

[Zetsumei]

Originally Posted by nascher

The most things people think to know about Germany in WW2 and before are just lied and learned prejudices.

I dare you tell that to some of my dead family.

-----------

The major difference i would say is that every country in the war did bad things and not only germans and russians as people generally hear. But in a game even if there are warcrimes i wouldnt want the player to participate in it directly.

[nascher]

Originally Posted by doomis

Okay, things are not as they are taught in school, but lets not try to just make a cod campaign with the protagonists switched. Sure there were people back then who saw things more "honorably or knightly" because it was their family tradition to join the army or something along those lines, but definitely german soldiers were not any more special than the rest (not talking about training etc, but the way someone sees things when he is trying to survive).

in this case, i have to disagree with you opinions. nearly every german had NO tradition in joining the army or something. most soldiers were farmers and servants from farmers. and in this time their beeing became a chance to get "a war hero" if you think romantic of it and the most soldiers thought that before war.
Their motivation for the "endsieg" was higher than for other troops. i read stories about war where british troops just gave up when they heard the heavy german mortar firing at their positions. the germans had the calling of beeing a so efficienty army that the morale of the others often became destroyed when they heared that not italians or hungarians but german troops attack their line next morning.
that are facts that should be reminded !

Originally Posted by doomis

In the end, the basic instincts of survival are all the same for everyone.

Instincts, YES but you forgot the "team spirit" which played always a gread role. i dont know how it was in other armies but in the german army every soldier could trust blind the next soldier. it wasnt only a fight for individual survival. it was more for them. that makes a big difference in the efficiency between others.

[Capt.Cool]

Nascher, what are your sources? The "Völkischer Beobachter" or "Der Stürmer"?

But anyway:
In this game you play a normal soldier. Not some general from the Highcommand.
So the question about his motivation is not really necessary!
The ordinary soldier portraited in this game had not much of a choice.
He had to do what his superiors told him, or he would get executed...

I dont think tripwire will screw this one.

[nascher]

Originally Posted by doomis

EDIT: Generally I agree with your post, but you only said the one side of the story, the other side is that for example those eastern countries that greeted germans as liberators were then very often treated the same way or worse as by the Stalin regime.

tell me an example. states like baltikum got occupied by russia without any provoke to them. the UDSSR just wanted more territory. the people got freed in the german offensive against UDSSR and fought with them. there was no treating by germans.
the most you read about "treatings by germans" where partisans that got aided by russia or the West to destabilise the german army.
todays media often wants to bring that in another light and they mostly even dont tell the audience that the "victims" where partisans.
the war law says, it is not forbitten to shoot partisans because they are no reagular army and have no right to fight against an army. all countries did that to partisans with right.
all countries signed this war law exept of UDSSR f.y.i. they just did what they want.
so please dont publish such sentences without a concrete example.

[nascher]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

I dare you tell that to some of my dead family.

i really understand your point. but man thats the way it happens.

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

The major difference i would say is that every country in the war did bad things and not only germans and russians as people generally hear. But in a game even if there are warcrimes i wouldnt want the player to participate in it directly.

your word!
yea warcrimes should not be showed in the game, BUT that happened in WW2. the player should be informed about it (if its relevant like in poland campaign).
the storyline should tell such things in briefing or intros for missions. no player would understand history. if he think while playing ingame:
"ok, now we are in poland and got Warschau. tell me what was the reason again for occupiing poland? i didnt get it. ah yes now i know! we are bad nazis who wanna slave the world!" then that game FAILED hin his historical and authentical responsibility.
if this is the way the game get made,please just build in bad nazi zeppelines that drop bombs over newyork and 100feet-nazi-railgun-propagange-robots with swastikas on their heads.

[nascher]

Originally Posted by Capt.Cool

Nascher, what are your sources? The "Völkischer Beobachter" or "Der Stürmer"?

well, protocols from diplomats and copies of their phonecalls.
contemporary witnesses, quotes from german, GB, american, france, poland people from the regimes. books from known historians and not to forget: mititary museums.

[husbert]

Originally Posted by nascher

If you ,tripwire interactive, make a german blablabla

did you play RO?
wth are speaking about invasion of poland?
game is about stalingrad

[LJFHutch]

Agreed, there was evil on both sides, it's just that the German's had a very outspoken representative

A good balanced campaign from both perspectives would be great, not playing against an evil Nazi super soldier or as a super-moral-russian-soldier like they usually do in CoD But then again, we won, so our view of Germany is very distorted. It's funny how we think of the Soviets in WW2 as the good guys, yet only a few years later and they're almost as bad as the Germans ...

Moral of the story: the winners are always the good guys in the end ...

A balanced [non black and white] campaign would be awesome, not moralistic self-righteous propaganda, just a good honest story.

[nascher]

Originally Posted by husbert

did you play RO?
wth are speaking about invasion of poland?
game is about stalingrad

yes i play RO. and i am really happy with it.

Quote from me:
example1) the polish war campaign.
Quote end.

do you know the understanding of the word "example" ?
i help you out !

[nascher]

Originally Posted by LJFHutch

A balanced [non black and white] campaign would be awesome, not moralistic self-righteous propaganda, just a good honest story.

your word man !

[nascher]

Originally Posted by VariousNames

Nascher, I want to see a list of sources for your claims, otherwise I am dangerously close to discarding every word you say as bleeding heart German nationalist propaganda.

Originally Posted by VariousNames

However, where is your citation? Where is a document I may read on a subject I know nothing about? All I have is a bunch of claims associated with what appears to be an apologetic with Nazi Germany, which, frankly, runs dangerously close to invalidating everything you say.

my sources should stand above in an earlier post after the mod checks it.
Of course this are sources you cannot access so easily, the originals are in archives but theoretical accessable for everyone (who knows how). But you can easily get them by reading books of military historics who mostly layed copies by.
So if you really think i broadcast „bleeding heart german nationalist propaganda“ here.
Well, think what you want from me. In this case i dont care.

Originally Posted by VariousNames

The degree of atrocities committed by the average Germans and the degree of barbarism associated with their military is generally unprecedented.

and what are your sources ? „Inglourious Basterds“? „Valkurie“ ?

Originally Posted by VariousNames

To try and paint this horrendous picture of Poland as aggressors (a nation, need I remind you, that was on the short route to obliteration) and evil people who committed atrocities and acted infantile contrasts strongly with the fact that we have a regime in Germany that wrote Mein Kampf, enslaved its people, killed 6 million Jews and a host of other ethnic minorities and political dissenters, and more or less fought a war of aggression with the entire world resulting, for a time, in the occupation of the entirety of mainland Europe and major offensives into nearly every European nation, including England and Russia with the explicit declaration of conquer of both nations.....

wow man, make a point ! Long sentence, really.
Well poland was on the way of obliteration yes because of their politics to foreign countries. They got no active help from their allies GB and France at the attacks.
I only can repeat my statements from my first article above and point on sources also above.
Germany never enslaved their people. Jews newer where their people. They where foreigners in this time. No other state opened their borders for the escaping jews. Especially GB didnt !
The number 6 million is adiquated by revisionists since decades, but you will always hear this number because this is the religious justification for building the nation Israel, the holy land.
Much people speak about only 340.000 jews who found their death in camps. And thats a big difference. But for this you wont find an accepted proof today. It is not allowed today to research this crimes. Shortly before a man came in jail for 12 years who wrote a consistently opinion tho this theme in germany.
Well and that germany wanted to conquer whole europe is so unrealistic. The cant whip their enemys away like harry potter. Their force was so small in equal to their enemys that it was just a matter of time for germany to loose. That was the reason why germany always wanted a peace treaty during the war.

Originally Posted by VariousNames

If you are unclear on the cause of the war I suggest you read Mein Kampf and a little bit about the notion of lebenstraum.

first, i never said im unclear. Second, i read it before, thanks.

Originally Posted by VariousNames

Were the Soviets bad people? Yes.

i hope you only mean the sowiet regime.
The people where just humans as we are.

Originally Posted by VariousNames

Don't forget the mass graves we unearthed and the documentation and the camps/transportation for the systematic execution of entire ethnic groups.

yea, dont forget the mass graves of german soldiers, civilians and childen they dig up in the east in the old west- and eastprussia(now poland and russia) year for year, murdered in the big ethnic banishment after world war 2. germany got teared to peaces and until today 1/3 of 1000 year old german ground is still in hands of poland, france, italy, slowakia, russia - regions that always where german in past who never had an other ethnic affiliation.
Until today this "allied" countries sit on german ground without any reparation.

It sounds for me they never heard about a „law of nations“.

It sound for me you look only history channel on tv to get your superior knowledge of WW2 but dont give up hope, everything has its beginning.

[[TW]schneidzekk]

O.k. Enough. Bye.

[husbert]

you can discuss the next 20 years about that

or you can realize that hos is portraying only stalingrad and the poor guys fighting in it