Compilation: Firebug weapon ideas.

[Emceegyver]

*Note: Title change to reflect a more general focus on how to fix firebug in general, not just weapon ideas.

I can only speak for myself on this matter, but I hate how many threads there are based purely on a single idea for the firebug.

The reason for this thread is to make it easier for someone trying to come up with an idea, but doesn't want to risk posting an idea that has already been presented and shot down.

The reason this thread is focused on the firebug is because, and I'm sure we can unanimously agree on this, firebug needs love the most.

All the following threads are contained within the Ideas & Suggestions board, and this is to remain. This thread is for discussion on IDEAS and SUGGESTIONS on how to FIX the firebug. This thread is not for you to complain about why you don't play firebug or how much it sucks in your eyes.

Now, on with the content:

THE SUGGESTIONS:
{NOTE: The following quotes may have been shortened for ease of read. NO CRITICAL INFO WAS LEFT OUT. Also, NOTHING WAS EDITED. The following quotes are directly from the first post of each thread, even atrocious spelling has been left in check)

Weapons Idea : New weapon for Firebug
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=38266

Originally Posted by jernmajoren

How about a weapon based on the bloats vomit - called something like: The Horizine XCW-13 Bile Blaster a expeimental weapon designed by Horizine based on the bloats acid vomit.

The weapon should have shorter range but slightly higher damage than the flamer.
The idea being that its better than the flamer for killing tougher specimens, but lacks the range and maybe have less penetration as well.

Possible way to fix firebug?
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=38295

Originally Posted by Krieg Jaeger

Why rely on damage over time that obscures vision when you can get insane damage that obscures the tiny little chunks that are left?

So, why not go a little retro? Instead of small tanks for the flamethrower, we go with a single backpack with 500,600,700,800,900,1000 ammo count, and no reloads. This would add a slight advantage over other weapons that makes it more useful, and open up another bit for perks (as reload speed is no longer required).

To replace the reload part of the perk, is a pushback percentage. Not so much as actually pushing the zeds backwards, but rather, slowing their advance. A fully leveled bug would stop a clot 5 feet away, and slow raging scrakes and fleshpounds to a walk. This would add another, quite possibly extremely helpful utility. (it would function better as a speed reduction perhaps).1*

The last would be to cause their grenades to create a constantly burning fire in the area they detonate for incremental amounts of time (based on level from 3+). The damage from the bonfire would stack with damage from the flamethrower, making it possible to quickly incinerate zeds in a pinch.

So, any thoughts?

1*
If you insist that a streaming jet of burning napalm would not push something back, try standing in front of a firehose on full blast.

weapon suggestions {note: contains non firebug suggestions as well}
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=37616

Originally Posted by Vashts1985

Flamebaiter:

Molotov cocktail: grenade like weapon. ignites a area on fire.

M202A1 "FLASH" portable rocket launcher: (link because of its obscure nature) basically it holds 4 rockets that are designed to deliver napalm to an area. very heavy can only hold one reload.

A Firebug Suggestion.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=38140

Originally Posted by NydusTemplar

Greetings all,

I've got an idea which could use some feedback.

Its for the Firebug, and it'd be keyed to '2'.

Essentially, its a high powered Flare Gun.

Basically, it'd do the following:

1) Act like the M79, except instead of exploding, just lighting the target on fire.

2) Weigh as much as a pistol, with fewer shots. (15-20?)

3) Stun if fired at the head just about any target (buying time against FPs and Scrakes).

4) Provide utility by lighting up rooms without the need for flashlights.

Maybe even fire it at the ground in a narrow doorway or hallway and have it constantly light things on fire as they come along over it. Great for casting light, and revealing those sneaky stalkers.

Thoughts?

Another try for a new Firebug's weapon
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=37996

Originally Posted by Outsider

What I was thinking, as a little sci-fi weapon, was something which would use the same principe as the Husk : some kind of plasma thrower (IHMO).
So, it would have 2 fire modes :
- a fireball like the husk
- a flamethrower, but more gaz than liquid, and in a straight line, on 10 meters or less. As a gaz, it would just burn the ZED but wouldn't inflamme the ground or the wall. And it wouldn't bow to the ground due to gravitation : it would be a big flame, just like gaz would burn when it comes out of its tank.

What do you think of it ?

A (continuous) Review of Proposed Suggestions.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=38141

Originally Posted by CupofMud

Firebugs Weapon

The second most common suggestion type I see. There are some good ideas, and then there are some bad ideas. I might be a bit more abrasive in this section.

"Make the alt fire of the flamethrower spill fuel which can be lit later." I don't understand how this can be very useful. I'll make up some type of example:

There are all sorts of hallways in KF-Offices. Let's spray some fuel on the ground in one that's heavily traversed and light it on fire. Assuming the specimens will stupidly walk right on through it (one of my biggest gripes, since they are smart enough to move away from grenades) they will of course catch fire and eventually burn to death. There are many variables with this wall of fire. How long would it burn for? Would it consume ammo at the same speed as using the flamethrower normally? If the latter is true, then to me (using the above scenario) is makes more sense just to tap-tap-tap fire into the lined up specimens. Since the streams of fire penetrate through groups, you'll catch more specimen on fire quicker than having them walk though a wall of fire and they'll spend more time burning.

Actually, now that I've put even further thought into this, with very careful implementing this could actually be a successful idea.

1. Specimens would have to be intelligent enough to realize that it is a wall of fire. Perhaps if a passageway is blocked, lesser specimens would stand idly in front of the fire until it goes out or find an alternate route. The bigger guys (fleshpounds, scrakes and of course husks) would march through it. In a sense, the wall of fire wouldn't be a trap nor would it be quite offensive, but moreso defensive in keeping enemies at bay.
2. To somewhat balance the wall of fire, the flames would have to be very vision obstructive. You can't have Firebugs constantly creating and maintaining walls while everyone just shoots through and kills the helpless bastards.
3. There would have to be a precise limit to how long the fuel would be allowed to burn. Too long and you have what seems like an impenetrable barrier to the lesser specimens. Too short and you have a feature that's annoying and not worth using.

One last thing here. Molotov cocktails, in a sense, already exist in Killing Floor. When a Firebug reaches level three, his grenades become fire grenades, which do the same thing but probably better.

A new weapon for the firebug : the flamethrower
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=38125

Originally Posted by Outsider

Well, not a new weapon but an alternative way of using it (a second mode).
So, i was thinking of 2 things :
- since some guys are asking for a jerrican, why couldn't we throw non-ignite fuel, in order to spread it all other a place, and ignite it with a normal shot or a fire grenade to make a wide trap ?
- another way of using it, since close combat may be a little difficult since the throw is in a straight line, why couldn't we switch with a wide, short-range shot ?

Firebug and incendiary explosives!
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=37878

Originally Posted by DocDave

Edit: Added a few points, after some thought on the perk.

As a note, some of these ideas could be incorporated into a new weapon, a new flamethrower for instance.

1. To give the firebug more versatility beyond just his single class weapon, how about make not just his grenades, but all his demolition weapons do fire damage? He won't ever get the damage bonus of the demolitions guy, but it would give him a reason to pick the nade launchers and pipe bombs, as he could safely use them close up. A range limitation should also be included, since I feel the FB should remain a "close range" specialist.

Additionally, this would probably require very little work, and greatly enhance the versatility of the firebug. I could even see some of them forgoing the flamethrower altogether in exchange for being up-close incendiary explosive specialists.

2. Higher damage. The DPS of the flamethrower hitting 3 targets at once is less than 10% more of an AK hitting a single target at once, which also has range and the ability to headshot. (Not even considering some of the newer weapons.) If they both are only hitting one target at a time, the AK does nearly 3x the damage. Burning damage should increase by the size of the specimen, too. The larger it is, the more damage burning does. Instead of a fixed number, perhaps it should instead remove (x hp + y% of max hp).

3. More ammo, more fuel canisters. Just as it says. I find it to be the perk most limited by ammo, despite it's many shortcomings.

4. More realistic napalm. Napalm that stays on the ground longer and burns specimen as they pass through, gives him another defensive ability. This could be tied to his various grenades and/or a new alt-fire attack on the flamethrower, which has less range and accuracy.

5. An alt-fire attack on the flamethrower. A short-range burst with more damage, like a shot-gun blast. It also leaves burning pools of napalm where it hits the ground, and zeds caught in it will immediately enter "on fire" behaviour. This gives the FB a way to deal with the larger zeds despite his poor ability to kill them. If more ammo is added to the FB, the alt-fire should consume more ammo.

ORIGINAL IDEAS CONTAINED IN THIS THREAD:
(I will make an effort to keep this updated as/if this thread progresses)

Kerosene: This would be a support item for the firebug. The firebug would use this on an ally berserker (or any other nub using a melee weapon) to temporarily set the weapon on fire. Duration would be dependent on firebug level. The flaming weapon would do less damage (it is cauterizing the wound ya know :P) but it would add a dot, plus it would illuminate dark areas.

Why? It doesn't really sound like it would make firebug anymore powerful... BUT, this would help make the firebug more of a team player, this would help make berserkers fun again (the idea of a flaming katana tickles me in ways you can't imagine) and it would also help make dark areas playable.

Gas Can: There is a video below with this weapon from a different game. The concept is that you pour the gas around and then get to light it on fire. Would be nice for setting traps.


Fin.
LAST UPDATED: Nov. 12, 2009.

[Emceegyver]

As much as double posting sucks, I wanted to keep the original post unbiased on the concepts and relatively clutter free. Now for my comments on the suggestions:

The Horizine XCW-13 Bile Blaster - While I do like that this maintains the "tier" theme, I don't feel it is different enough. Sounds like it would be a reskinned flamethrower with slightly different stats. I am aware there are weapons in game that are just reskins with new stats, but just because there is, doesn't mean there should be.

1 ammo tank - I like this idea as it seems more realistic, but on the other hand it takes away one of the main bonuses in the perk: reload speed. Add knockback to account for this... I don't know about that. It just seems... off.

(posters justification: "If you insist that a streaming jet of burning napalm would not push something back, try standing in front of a firehose on full blast." my rebuttle: Have you tried holding a firehose on full blast? Exactly. Plus, there's a snowman's chance in hell that you would have a flamethrow with that kind of pressure.)

grenades that cause sustained fire - a grenade that creates a fire that stays there.... um... you mean a molotov?

M202A1 "FLASH" portable rocket launcher - I have nothing to say about this other than I approve. Sounds like a useful version of the LAW.

Flare Gun - This is my favourite idea. It seems so blatantly obvious too, it just... fits. Plus, as a bonus the flares would remain, and could be used to light up dark areas, further improving the playability of dark areas.

"Alien" style plasma thrower - The husk part I am indifferent to, but the gas portion I don't understand. That appears to me to be useless... unless this was made the tier 2 and the flamethrower was bumped to tier 3.

I don't currently have time to comment on the rest, as I have to go. I will update later with comments on those.

[LIck]

Today while playing the firebug i felt like Postal 2 there was a weapon known as the gas can check the vid below:

YouTube - Postal 2 Weapons: Gas Can

There is a napalm launcher too:

YouTube - Postal 2 Weapons: Napalm Launcher

I think the gas can would be one of the most advantages of the firebug and the napalm launcher could
have a blastwave so it knocksback the enemies

Edit: I dont know why the videos are shown 2 times... ah nvm

[CupofMud]

Bravo, we've needed this thread for a long time.

EDIT: just adding to this post some. My views on a few Firebug suggestions and what I think will happen/should be done. It's all taken from an online chat, so bear with me on the grammar and such.

Originally Posted by CupofMud

CupofMud: firebug needs a way to frontload damage
CupofMud: to bring it in line with all of the other perks (for all intents and purposes, will be barring medic from most of this)
CupofMud: incendiary round and explosives will not accomplish this
CupofMud: specimen denial will not accomcplish this
CupofMud: i see two things happening: firebug being brought in line with the other perks in the sense of being able to frontload damage and take down tougher specimen (i hate the notion of people being able to solo fleshpounds, but whatever for this example) or
CupofMud: firebug being made much better at what it does currently, which is crowd control. now, in the latter case people may see that as broken, which is the problem with that. "omg! things keep burning to death too fast!"
CupofMud: so it's cornered into most likely going with the former. so thinking of examples of that,
CupofMud: i see flamethrowers damage being raised. but we need an excuse for that. add lower tier weapon, or to make the flamethrower more expensive (which the latter isn't even a good reason—see crossbow. cheap and powerful)
CupofMud: i see an alt fire that uses ammo at an increased rate, but this must be implemented along with more ammo. the idea is, it is not efficient to use it on anything but something tough and would be a waste. why use alt fire to kill clots/etc. when normal fire, which will use much less fuel, take them out just as well?
CupofMud: now for new weapon ideas
CupofMud: the husk arm i think we've already talked about [for this, go here and read post #18]
CupofMud: a chemical burner type thing would be possible. it would perhaps instantly make them act in their "i'm burning manner" upon hit (as well as look charred). it would do more damage than the flamethrower, but perhaps wouldn't have a DoT
CupofMud: a strong one-shot flaregun poses the same drawbacks as the husk arm
CupofMud: to limit it, it would have to reload slow and have little ammo. aiming would suck, misses would suck, etc
CupofMud: no other weapons but the LAW are like that currently, and we all now how the LAW is
CupofMud: so it sure would be a strong weapon, but it would more than just a challenge to aim
CupofMud: just doesn't seem right, either. a flaregun popping something in one hit. [just a personal take on it here, do not consider this as part of the whole]
CupofMud: lighting up areas, i still think that is not too useful. the only two dark areas that come to mind are bedlam and that passageway in west london. even if lit up that passageway would be an awful place to fight. in bedlam there arent many dark places where you can effectively camp anyway. you have to stay mobile in that map for the most part. so you could pop flares around for some sort of light use, but it wouldn't be too helpful
CupofMud: flamethrower pushback, i can see it's uses. they would probably have to implement it as some form of, "if it gets hit at X range, it will move X slower" and with constant hits, it would constantly move slower as it gets closer (every hit the equation would check itself again and readjust to make things slower)
CupofMud: well, that was all more for slowing down something. as for actually pushback, no clue how that would work. only on lesser specimen? but they would die quickly from fire anyway
CupofMud: you can't have a weapon that slows things down but doesn't push them back at all when they're slow
CupofMud: a stronger flamethrower in general could solve some things,
CupofMud: but firebug needs more than just that flamethrower. some people are right when they say that the class is pretty bland. once you have that weapon, you can't do much but light thingss on fire. it doesn't even have a cool alt fire or anything
CupofMud: you're stuck with it
CupofMud: so while the damage could be beefed, i really hope that's not all they'd do [again, another personal view]
CupofMud: one idea floating around is to be able to throw one of the fuel tanks and then blow it up somehow. i think thats also not very helpful
CupofMud: that would be 160 units of fuel gone
CupofMud: that's a **** ton of specimens dead that i coulda killed using all of that just with the flamethrower
CupofMud: but when you take all of that fuel to kill, say,
CupofMud: just a group of things or a fleshpound, what a waste
CupofMud: if i have team backup (which is necessary at the moment) for when a fleshpound appears, i usually use a bit over half a tank spamming fire on the fleshpound before the team and i kill it
CupofMud: so that's only 80 units of fuel. 160 units of fuel to do exactly what a pipebomb does? no thanks
CupofMud: redundant feature
CupofMud: i can;t think of much else
CupofMud: there are always the specimen denial ideas, but they don't solve the problem, they just add utility

[NydusTemplar]

Before I get into the ideas, I think one thing must be squared away. Is this a team game, or a game where every perk should be able to solo? That's bound to have a HUGE impact on the way things should go, especially for the Firebug. If its a team game, then we need to decide where the Firebug fits into the team dynamic. If its a solo option, then we need to figure out how to get the Firebug there.

Another option is that every perk should be able to either clear trash, or tackle the big boys, depending on gear loadout. If that's the case, we need to approach this from a standpoint of how to do one, or other, without doing both. This is a big design point which needs to be addressed. Either all perks are like Sharpshooters/Support Specialists, or they get nerfed and have to play with the rest of us.

While an improvement to the flamethrower itself is certainly called for (my first thought would be to make it lighter, its current drawbacks out of perk more than warrant it), I'd warn against pushing for it to be the one and only weapon for the Firebug perk.

From what I've always looked at and seen of the Firebug, it appears that it should have efficiency and reduced line of sight blockage when put against the Demolitions perk, which should be all about brute force and, as a side effect, line of sight obstruction.

We should really then be focusing on how we can make the Firebug more efficient and less likely to obsecure targets, rather than how to make them more like the Demo Perk. I mean, if all else fails, they can basically become the fiery Demo, but I don't think we should push for that immediately.

Also, another thing to think about is that most perks, while following a tier theme, do so with at least two weapons, if not more. Seeing as how the flamethrower is so heavy, it means you're looking at a weapon which is either three or four blocks of weight, or coming up with multiple weapons including one which puts another out of the picture in late game.

On the bloat weapon, I don't really see how this plays into the Firebug perk in concept. It really doesn't fit. Functionally, it's a suped up flamethrower with less line of sight obstruction. Not sure that's the way to go. I mean, how many Berserkers would be happy if the weapon which put the Fire Axe and Chainsaw to pasture had been a boomerang/bowie knife.

On the backpack tank suggestion, I realize there's something (other than my initial thoughts posted in the original thread) which I hadn't considered. Look at the way characters currently handle weapons. Now, its kind of ridiculous that you've got guns which magically appear and disappear, but you can almost forgive it and suspend your disbelief. With this, however, you wouldn't just be making a flamethrower appear and disappear, you'd be making a flamethrower, a connection hose, and a backpack tank appear and disappear magically. I'll admit, its not an especially strong argument, but something to think about from a design standpoint. Other than that, I just have what I said in that particular thread.

On the grenades/molotovs, my opinion hasn't changed greatly on the matter, you can read it in the thread.

On the "Flash" Launcher, it would be very, very heavy, and would essentially force you to not use the Flamethrower, and be limited to the eight shots provided (4 in the clip, plus a reload). For a long, hard (giggity) wave, that would be woefully inadequite. On the move, you wouldn't be able to use this weapon. Sure, you could, in a fix position, buy a flamethrower, drop it, then buy a launcher, but I think one thing which should be addressed is how most Perks don't have to do this sort of dance, why should the Firebug be forced to?

On the flare gun, well, its my idea.

On the M240 Flamethrower (the one from Aliens), if you read the USCM tech manual (Yes, I have. Yes, I am a dirty, dirty geek), its basically the flamethrower in the game. The one you see in the movie is a standard Hollywood, gas operated, 'showy' flamethrower. The reality of using a Hollywood flamethrower in combat is that you'd basically have to be hugging them, and you'd burn yourself as badly when the fire blasts back into your face when it hits a large surface (like a Bloat, Fleshpound, or Scrake). Even with all that, you probably wouldn't do that much damage by comparison to napalm dousing them. There's a reason why gas operated ones are used in movies, safety of the actor.

On the gas can, its simple and lightweight, could see it being used to create traps, though not terribly sure they'd be more effective than a burst from the flamethrower. Or, you could throw it out and ignite it like a fiery pipebomb. But then, why don't we just make the pipebombs burn continuously for the Firebugs?

On the Napalm Launcher, see "Flash" Launcher.

[CupofMud]

Originally Posted by NydusTemplar

Before I get into the ideas, I think one thing must be squared away. Is this a team game, or a game where every perk should be able to solo? That's bound to have a HUGE impact on the way things should go, especially for the Firebug. If its a team game, then we need to decide where the Firebug fits into the team dynamic. If its a solo option, then we need to figure out how to get the Firebug there.

Another option is that every perk should be able to either clear trash, or tackle the big boys, depending on gear loadout. If that's the case, we need to approach this from a standpoint of how to do one, or other, without doing both. This is a big design point which needs to be addressed. Either all perks are like Sharpshooters/Support Specialists, or they get nerfed and have to play with the rest of us.

Part of me wants the game back to how it was pre-Heavy Metal just because it was a lot more teamwork orientated. Hell, even if the AK-47 and katana are thrown in, the game still required more teamwork than it does now. The new weapons have given their respective perks immense power: the ability to solo the tougher specimens.

Firebug and Berzerker are arguably the two classes left behind in the update. Firebug used to be a great sweeper compared to other perks and relied on teamwork to take down the tougher specimens. Now, while we still require teamwork to take down scrakes and fleshpounds, we are not great at sweeping when compared to the other perks (that doesn't mean we don't have our moments, but still). So as you've stated, we have to examine how we want to buff Firebug.

We could make the perk more teamwork orientated, or we could bring it in line with the other perks and give it some method of dealing massive amounts of damage.

Teamwork.

• The suggestions that seem teamwork orientated are based around crowd control. We have specimen denial with spraying fuel and lighting it later and molotov cocktails (both would burn for a time and hinder specimen movement) as well as being able to stun specimens with a flare gun to buy time to take down a fleshpound and/or save a life.
• This certainly gives Firebug more utility.

Bring it in line with the other perks.

• Giving Firebug a method of frontloading massive amounts of damage (or just doing lots more damage in general) sure would solve a lot of our problems, but it would further us from the need for teamwork, which is definitely something I don't like. It also serves to further homogenize the perks.
• DocDave seems to have the right idea with all of this in his thread "Have the new weapons destroyed the need for teamplay?" Apart from there being a lack in teamwork, the perks seem like they're somewhat all the same now in their capabilities (see above with that crazy word, homogenized). Do we really want Firebug to abandon its uniqueness to join the ranks of the other perks? Or is it actually Firebugs uniqueness that's holding it back?

Really, I feel Firebug doesn't need one big change. It needs a lot of tiny changes.

[mamoo]

Originally Posted by LIck

I think the gas can would be one of the most advantages of the firebug and the napalm launcher could
have a blastwave so it knocksback the enemies

Check out Braindead's vehicles mod (not yet released), he's made a petrol tank that works just like the postal 2 one, minus the Zippo.

[SMIFF]

the first 2 quotes on the OP's thread are very good.

and the video of the postal gas can is a good idea also

put those in

[Pluberus]

Would you mind putting the quotes under each thread link? Makes it easier to read. xD

[bstm300]

I hope this has not been previously mentioned, but anyways, I think the firebug should have a bow that shoots arrows with explosive (incendiary) tipped ends. If you remember the scene from the Rambo movies with Sylvester Stallone where he attaches explosive tips to arrows, you will get an idea of what I'm talking about. Use the video below, which is from one of the first Rambo movies, to get an idea of what it would look like.



The Five Greatest Movie Scenes Since 1950

[_COMRADe]

I support a Remote Detonation Fire-Mine for the firebug. Drop it, hit the button to make it boom. (Haven't played much firebug so maybe it's already got one, but maybe the flamethrower's alt-fire could detonate?)

Just a big boom that sets a buncha stuff on fire, but no "explosion" damage.

[Emceegyver]

Originally Posted by Pluberus

Would you mind putting the quotes under each thread link? Makes it easier to read. xD

Done.

Also, in regards to whether this should be team-based vs. solo friendly, I personally think it should be more team-based. I mean, look at the medic perk, you can not possibly level it playing solo.

As far as new ideas go, the gas can would be nice for setting traps, but I think its too similar to the flamethrower. Considering it's a liquid based flamethrower, isn't it doing essentially the same thing as the gas can? I think a gas can weapon would work better as a single object that when used is placed on the ground, and when shot explodes. Still pretty useless if there's a demo around, but it would be a nice "remote detonation" kind of weapon, even if that detonation requires a bullet.

[jernmajoren]

Originally Posted by Emceegyver

As far as new ideas go, the gas can would be nice for setting traps, but I think its too similar to the flamethrower. Considering it's a liquid based flamethrower, isn't it doing essentially the same thing as the gas can? I think a gas can weapon would work better as a single object that when used is placed on the ground, and when shot explodes. Still pretty useless if there's a demo around, but it would be a nice "remote detonation" kind of weapon, even if that detonation requires a bullet.

I agree, gas can as a bullet triggered weapon sounds cool.

[DocDave]

While it's strictly speaking not a suggestion for a new weapon, you might want to take a look at my post here and consider adding it to the list.

[Keaton Fox]

What I heard that I like is a incendiary rocket. Pretty much you use what the Husk uses. The flamethrower has limited range, and you have to move the flame from enemy to enemy. The fire rocket like the Husk's would keep on going for any distance, and explode on contact lighting a big crowd of enemies on fire. Would have a few shots, semi-long reloads, but would not be a huge and heavy weapon like the unused L.A.W.

Otherwise I hear ideas like another stronger flamethrower. It could have a different design and maybe blue fire. It would be stronger, but otherwise the same as the old. So it's just an damage upgrade from the old one, and would cost more.

Also smaller stuff like incendiary ammo for Hand Cannons, and Molotov's that keep an area of ground on fire for short time.

[ImPeRaToR]

I'd like to suggest a flare gun; but not a boring one, rather one with several flares glued/welded together akin to a pepperbox. This would make it one use only though so the number of guns allowed for the firebug could scale with the level of the firebox, i.e. n - 1, n beeing the level of the perk.

[Jewmander]

Why not just give Firebugs incendiary ammo for an increasing number of guns based on perk level but not give them better handling/ammo capacity for them? At the very least that would make falling back to your sidearm less painful as well as opening up new loadouts to play with besides flamethrower + slightly upgraded fallback weapon.

[ImPeRaToR]

maybe some sort of incenary 12 gauge "slug" for the shotgun!

[robdude19]

Originally Posted by Jewmander

Why not just give Firebugs incendiary ammo for an increasing number of guns based on perk level but not give them better handling/ammo capacity for them? At the very least that would make falling back to your sidearm less painful as well as opening up new loadouts to play with besides flamethrower + slightly upgraded fallback weapon.

You can't allow all weapons to have incendiary ammo for the FB. Any gun with a high rate of fire would be better than the gun for the perks it's meant for, plus would be too similar in effect to the normal flamethrower.

I think the Handcannon should be equipped with incendiary ammo for the FB (at a premium). The FB could dual wield handcannons, thereby providing a fairly high rate of fire and considerable fire coverage, more than I'd like to see at unlimited range. However, the handcannons have considerable recoil for a non-sharpshooter so their ranged effectiveness would be limited to aimed single shots, as it should be. This would allow the FB to ignite high value targets from long range, softening them up even if he's out of flamethrower fuel. Incendiary handcannon ammo would give the FB a fun alternative for igniting specimens, as well as conserving flamethrower ammo when there aren't any big groups around.

The initial damage of the Handcannon would also make this option more effective against single targets. A gorefast could be killed in one shot with the flames finishing him off (for high lvl FB), which cannot be said about a single flamethrower puff. Perhaps the incendiary handcannon round should do a bit less damage up front than the normal handcannon ammo, but the flame damage would do much more if the specimen is down range.

[Jewmander]

Originally Posted by robdude19

You can't allow all weapons to have incendiary ammo for the FB. Any gun with a high rate of fire would be better than the gun for the perks it's meant for, plus would be too similar in effect to the normal flamethrower.

I don't see how, as long as the handling and price was the same and maybe if the initial damage was lowered (a reasonable compensation) it would just give Firebugs more options than *buy flamethrower, toss a couple bucks into fuel every wave*. I suppose not all weapons should be thrown into the mix, but a well-rounded selection with appropriate perk level requirements sounds just fine. Besides, nobody is saying Medics shouldn't be able to wield crossbows because they can move faster than Sharpshooters and demonstrate comparable stopping power. A lot of the guns, particularly the new high-end ones, probably need to be rebalanced in some fashion anyway.