Katana Nerf

[Jabau]

Originally Posted by Krotz

Berserkers systematically ruin the gameplay:

-they camp at doors and hog all the kills by just holding the left mouse button

-they constantly get in the way of your fire ruining many opportunities and tactics

-there is no tactic involved in using them

-they are practically the only solution for taking out Scrakes and Fleshpounds in many situations which makes the game dumber

I want them out of the game.

So basically you're saying that you've never actually played a berserker, don't know much about the combat in the game and are simply biased... Alrighty then.

[Crusad3rMKII]

Originally Posted by Krotz

-they camp at doors and hog all the kills by just holding the left mouse button

A single zerker doing such a tactic alone won't last long. If he/she crouches and let the others shoot from inside (possibly with a medic constantly healing) it can be a very effective (and quite fair imho) tactic sometime.

-they constantly get in the way of your fire ruining many opportunities and tactics

This really depends on who you're playing with. There are zerkers blindly charging groups of specimen you're shooting at but there are even ones that try to stay out of the way and hack their own groups of enemies (and, most of the times, someone else comes shooting all the way taking the kills).

-there is no tactic involved in using them

Absolutely not, you take many risks on going hand to hand with specimens and you have to calculate your timing and watch your back a lot more (if you're alone), plus you will have more troubles against Crawlers and Sirens.

-they are practically the only solution for taking out Scrakes and Fleshpounds in many situations which makes the game dumber

I may agree on the Scrake part (although other perks do have some options against them) but FPs can be decapped by a random 9mm.

I want them out of the game.

Don't count on me for this!

[Oldih]

Originally Posted by Crusad3rMKII

(and, most of the times, someone else comes shooting all the way taking the kills).

I had this happen to me so many times that it was becoming mildly hilarious in its own way.

Considering this comes from a person who played zerker lvl1 to 5 only on FF server(s) it certainly was not issue about running in front of the gunline and getting your arse shot every possible moment.

[gusone]

The top weapons AK, Hunting Shotty, Katana, LAW should be soul bound to the perk they are in. It's bl00dy ridiculous people of any perk can run around with Deagles or an AK and also have a Katana. Utter madness.

Also spawn weapons should also be soulbound to stop everyone sharing them on level 1 as much as I like Fearwall tossing me a deagle.

You may not like these suggestions but you all know deep down it's the right thing to maintain the game's integrity, keep the moral high ground above other unrealistic shooters and protect the high quality KF experience we all know and love.

[jb_]

Originally Posted by Krotz

Berserkers systematically ruin the gameplay:.

No it doesnt. Anything from as simple as a newbie can ruin a teams systematic gameplay. You can be in any class and it all comes down to the player.

-they camp at doors and hog all the kills by just holding the left mouse button

so what? zombies dont spawn in one place of the map. Any experienced player would look elsewhere for zombies.

-they constantly get in the way of your fire ruining many opportunities and tactics

Why would you need to fire at a target thats already been targeted? These are the worst players. We dont need 6 players killing 1 zombie while zombies are flooding in from many directions.

-there is no tactic involved in using them

Every single perk has its own tactics, you use their strengths and gameplay style to win. This applys to many areas of the game and game type.

-they are practically the only solution for taking out Scrakes and Fleshpounds in many situations which makes the game dumber

Any perk can take out a FP with the trusty 9mm(best weapon in game for me). Even a Sharpshooter can take down a Scrake 1 shot with an xbow in Suicidal. With the introductory of the katana, anyone can take down a scrake with ease.

I want them out of the game

too bad mate, not happening, just learn to use and play with each perks' strengths, that would make you a better player.

[jb_]

What Jabau is requesting to Tripwire is to just remove the primary fire stun effect to scrakes for non-berzerkers. But Keeping the slight stun on secondary fire.

This is totally agreed by pretty much all the suicidal players ive played with.

Every single 0.5sec counts in suicidal mode, which means this slight modification would greatly effect the outcome of newbies going in and gay spam firing on the scrakes.

Berzerkers are important in the game, also brings in a different style of game play which is very important in developing ones skills and appeal. Since suicidal mode rarely spawns ammo crates or weapons, it is a necessity for suicidal players.

If weapon cost is one thing to worry about then Id suggest changing the money awarded per round and kill to be all the same across the modes(beginner - suicidal). That way, the powerful weapons wont be as acessible unless you survive the rounds. This way, players wont abuse the power.

Killing Floor's true gameplay is suicidal mode.

[omarfw]

Originally Posted by Krotz

-they camp at doors and hog all the kills by just holding the left mouse button

If all you care about is getting more kills then everyone else then you should just stop playing KF.

[gusone]

Originally Posted by jb_

Killing Floor's true gameplay is suicidal mode.

No it's not. It's friendly fire.

[jb_]

Well most ppl can't even win all the official maps without glitching, so I don't see how they can even dream of playing suicidal + friendly fire

[Crusad3rMKII]

Originally Posted by gusone

No it's not. It's friendly fire.

What about Suicidal + Friendly Fire?

[Man And A Half]

Originally Posted by omarfw

If all you care about is getting more kills then everyone else then you should just stop playing KF.

It's actually the people camping the doors who are worrying about getting the most kills - And good luck getting some of them to share their cash.

[Jabau]

Originally Posted by Man And A Half

It's actually the people camping the doors who are worrying about getting the most kills - And good luck getting some of them to share their cash.

First of all, camping at doors or whatever is in no way a sign of caring about kills, it's simply a fine tactic for minimizing the area in which they come at you. It's not even a good way to get kills, it's a good way to minimize damage taken. Secondly, how does one hog kills by "camping"? That implies that you're sitting there waiting - It's a doorway, obviously people can see through it and shoot the mobs before they even reach the melee classes, geeze. Third, if you're having money problems and require handouts, then you probably should go to easier difficulties and work some things out. What I've said before kinda contradicts the notion that they have all the money anyway.

[Slappy Cromwell]

Originally Posted by Jabau

Secondly, how does one hog kills by "camping"? That implies that you're sitting there waiting - It's a doorway, obviously people can see through it and shoot the mobs before they even reach the melee classes, geeze.

Why should I bother wasting ammo trying to shoot specimens over a guy's shoulder when I know all the specimens will inevitably just run into his katana/chainsaw? If I saw a Scrake heading towards a doorway with a Berserker camping in it, I could either fruitlessly waste a ton of ammo trying to take down said Scrake or simply sit back and let the Berserker stun and kill it with a few power strikes. Either way, the Berserker is going to get the kill since as a non-Berserker I can't possibly dish out enough damage fast enough to eliminate the Scrake before it runs straight into the other guy's power strikes.

[Jabau]

Originally Posted by Slappy Cromwell

Why should I bother wasting ammo trying to shoot specimens over a guy's shoulder when I know all the specimens will inevitably just run into his katana/chainsaw? If I saw a Scrake heading towards a doorway with a Berserker camping in it, I could either fruitlessly waste a ton of ammo trying to take down said Scrake or simply sit back and let the Berserker stun and kill it with a few power strikes. Either way, the Berserker is going to get the kill since as a non-Berserker I can't possibly dish out enough damage fast enough to eliminate the Scrake before it runs straight into the other guy's power strikes.

Well judging by what you've said there, sounds like the berserker just saved you. Also, if you can't kill anything before it gets close enough to melee, might I suggest working on your aim.

[Slappy Cromwell]

Originally Posted by Jabau

Well judging by what you've said there, sounds like the berserker just saved you.

He's also revealed to me that I'm wasting my time playing perks like Firebug or Commando since they have no chance of solo-ing entire waves from a single doorway without worry of running out of ammo (Although the Bullpup is quite nice for decapitating Fleshpounds). I may as well just buy a katana like him, because why not? The katana is clearly superior to everything else. Say, what is this thread about again?

Also, if you can't kill anything before it gets close enough to melee, might I suggest working on your aim.

Hard to aim when there's a body holding a katana or chainsaw in your way. Picking off Crawlers and Stalkers is a fairly simple task, nonetheless, but they hardly bring in any decent money.

[Jabau]

Originally Posted by Slappy Cromwell

He's also revealed to me that I'm wasting my time playing perks like Firebug or Commando since they have no chance of solo-ing entire waves from a single doorway without worry of running out of ammo (Although the Bullpup is quite nice for decapitating Fleshpounds). I may as well just buy a katana like him, because why not? The katana is clearly superior to everything else. Say, what is this thread about again.

Well, nothing is stopping you from having a melee weapon as a secondary. As a Firebug/Commando you have enough ammo to get a very good amount of kills each round, from a distance, out of harms way. No gun has enough ammo to solo an entire wave(depending on variables), which is probably where the "team" aspect of the game comes in. There are also ammo crates and weapons lying around most of the time, and you do infact have a 9mm, I suggest you learn to use it. Tactics do come into play and you can't really expect to be given enough ammo to simply spam away as you please. You should never be incapable of killing something.

Firebugs have huge damage and are capable of carrying a melee weapon with flamethrower. They also get awesome flame nades. To give them more ammo would overpower them. Perhaps they could use a little bit of buffing, like a new weapon or something, but it is not berserker alone that makes them seem "bad"(for lack of a better word).
Commandos get 2 weapons, 1 being really cheap, allowing you to buy spares, and both having decent damage with good amounts of extremely cheap ammo. They are good and very capable at taking out normal mobs and FP's(basically everything except scrakes *sigh*can't be good at everything). Oh, not to mention they can also see stalkers and health, nifty little tricks.
Berserkers specialise in melee weapons so they don't really need ammo(but do use guns, seeing how crawlers/sirens and even bloats are a big problem*cough*game balance*cough*), but they don't have range and constantly put themselves in danger. Even hiding behind doors and walls is not fool-proof.
Please, I thought that much about the classes was obvious.

Yes, the katana is overpowered, I'm not refuting that. That is why I made this thread(which seems to have gone a bit off course), but I fail to see how that is a problem with the class itself.

Hard to aim when there's a body holding a katana or chainsaw in your way. Picking off Crawlers and Stalkers is a fairly simple task, nonetheless, but they hardly bring in any decent money.

Well, I don't know what sort of berserkers you've been playing with, but I don't think I've ever seen a beserker who wasn't crouching while sitting in a doorway, not to mention it sounds asthough your berserkers are sitting in the middle of the doorway, which doesn't sound right to me.

As far as the money goes, clots, crawlers, gorefasts and stalkers make up the majority of the money I'd presume, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[Nanostrike]

Originally Posted by Krotz

Berserkers systematically ruin the gameplay:

-they camp at doors and hog all the kills by just holding the left mouse button

-they constantly get in the way of your fire ruining many opportunities and tactics

-there is no tactic involved in using them

-they are practically the only solution for taking out Scrakes and Fleshpounds in many situations which makes the game dumber

I want them out of the game.

Holy crap, people. If you can't recognize this as OBVIOUS trolling, then you're an internet rookie. He got no less than THREE lengthy replies from it so far, though! For shame! DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

[Nanostrike]

Originally Posted by Slappy Cromwell

He's also revealed to me that I'm wasting my time playing perks like Firebug or Commando since they have no chance of solo-ing entire waves from a single doorway without worry of running out of ammo (Although the Bullpup is quite nice for decapitating Fleshpounds)

Not to mention that neither a Firebug nor Commando can take out Scrakes on their own without Katana/Fire Axe stunning...and if it wasn't for the FP Decap ability, a charging FP would IMMEDIATELY mean the loss of 50%-80% of your health with no way to avoid it. Yet people are complaining about these features making it "Too easy". Bleh.

Anyway, if you play on Hard/Suicidal enough, you'll see that Berserkers holding a doorway without backup don't tend to last long. Usually when a Berserker owns everything by camping a doorway, it's due in no small part to good teamwork backing him. And, as people forget to notice, he's keeping the enemies back from you! Without him, you'd likely get tied up point-blanking charging Gorefasts/Stalkers and not be able to shoot at the FPs/Scrakes/Sirens in time...

[Jabau]

Originally Posted by Nanostrike

Anyway, if you play on Hard/Suicidal enough, you'll see that Berserkers holding a doorway without backup don't tend to last long. Usually when a Berserker owns everything by camping a doorway, it's due in no small part to good teamwork backing him. And, as people forget to notice, he's keeping the enemies back from you! Without him, you'd likely get tied up point-blanking charging Gorefasts/Stalkers and not be able to shoot at the FPs/Scrakes/Sirens in time...

Exactly. I get the feeling that pretty much everyone commenting have never even tried solo'ing as a berserker(and I don't exactly count any mode other than Suicidal), and certainly don't seem to appreciate their contribution to the team. They are in no way more capable than other classes, except when dealing with scrakes, and even that is rivaled by the Sharp Shooter.. or anything with a crossbow.


Well well well, I think the katana may have been the catalyst for these arguments anyway, making berserkers seem a whole lot easier, and very lame. Woo, back on topic - Katana = Overpowered

[Templarion]

Here are my ideas how katana should be changed:

Spoiler!

TOO BAD ITS ME BLACKSMITH!!!