Bye Bye STG

[Ermac]

Originally Posted by fOgGy

Yep I personally think it looks way cooler than the STG44 -

http://world.guns.ru/assault/mkb42h-1.jpg

I doubt they were used in any significant numbers that would warrent having them in the game.

[aktionman]

Originally Posted by aktionman

... A strength report he found for Oct '42 by Inf. Reg. 54 (100 Jäger Division) shows 3 (+ 1 broken?) weapons with designation "MG42". It also shows they have 29 MG34's, so almost a 10:1 ratio.

Originally Posted by BlackLabel

care to share a link `?

Image from Russ' site: http://www.fireonthevolga.com/
http://www.fireonthevolga.com/IR54-MG42.JPG

Production numbers of MG42 for 1942 is listed as just over 15 000, vs. MG34 about 4 times that.

Some references:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...73263&start=30
http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewto...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Book: "MG34-MG42 German Universal Machineguns" by Folke Myrvang

[Oldih]

My guess would be to have only MG42s involved in later maps, such as winter '42-'43 or something like that, but even then only in limited amounts. Otherwise MG34 all the way.

[EddyzAquila]

I'm really dissapointed that my favourite gun of all time won't be in one of my favourite games.

But still, bolt-action rifle FTW now.

[Nestor Makhno]

MG42 was there from September onwards.

[Ralfst3r]

I remember stories about using hipped MG42's to clear rooms in Stalingrad, but I don't have any references or sources to link

[DietOrange]

Remember the Academy of Stalingrad street fighting rules the grenade goes first in the room not the MG42

[Bolt]

I wonder how they will replicate Soviet assault teams, which all had PPShs, knifes/spades and 10-15 grenades - not for a whole team, but for each of those 10-12 soldiers!

[The_Emperor]

Originally Posted by Ralfst3r

I remember stories about using hipped MG42's to clear rooms in Stalingrad, but I don't have any references or sources to link

I found a video on that.
A German soldier firing short controllable bursts:

YouTube - MG-42 sturmfeuer (assault fire)

[Tiger2]

Originally Posted by Ermac

I doubt they were used in any significant numbers that would warrent having them in the game.

Is anyone able to find reliable statistics about the mkb42?

Wikipedia states nearly 11000 rifles were produced between early 1942 and late 1943. However Wikipedia is the most unreliable source of information.

Who has access to original documents to give us reliable information?

[DietOrange]

Originally Posted by Bolt

I wonder how they will replicate Soviet assault teams, which all had PPShs, knifes/spades and 10-15 grenades - not for a whole team, but for each of those 10-12 soldiers!

That would be like on the Lyeskrovy map where half the russian team has a PPSH with grenades

[Bolt]

They have only 2 grenades now though, and its' already a spam fest there. Now, if TWI will do as they say - aim for the realism, and actually add the right number of grenades to such assault team members, can you imagine the havoc?

[Tiger2]

Originally Posted by Bolt

They have only 2 grenades now though, and its' already a spam fest there. Now, if TWI will do as they say - aim for the realism, and actually add the right number of grenades to such assault team members, can you imagine the havoc?

This is because in RO:OST the player has extreme accuracy. You can easily manage to throw it through a small window 50-60 metres away.

The second problem is that grenades in RO:OST fly too far. For RO:HOS Tripwire developers should take replicas of German and Russian grenades and see how far they can throw them.

Thirdly most urban maps are "unrealistic" in RO:OST. There is not enough space in those maps which is why grenades are so effective. If Tripwire get their hands on the ACTUAL city plan of Stalingrad and replicate it in their maps, grenades are no longer overpowered.

If the above issues are tackled, you can give a soviet soldier 10 grenades with no problem. So if Tripwire are aiming for realism.. you dont have to worry about anything.

[PUTZ]

Originally Posted by Tiger2

...Tripwire developers should take replicas of German and Russian grenades and see how far they can throw them.

im pretty sure they've done this.

[Tiger2]

Originally Posted by PUTZ

im pretty sure they've done this.

Are you a Tripwire representative? From where do you have this information?

[DietOrange]

A little Sunday bird told him this morning maybe

[Bolt]

The second problem is that grenades in RO:OST fly too far

When I was in 10th grade (that's 5 years ago) we had a normative of grenade throwing in our PT. It was quite heavy and had a form of a RGD or a German potatomasher. We had to throw it to 30 meters in order to get A+. I remember that most of us 10th graders managed to score good results.

A trained soldier should throw it a lot further.

However, I agree with your points. I like how greandes in PR mod are made - the distance of the throw and the effects of explosion. Much better than RO's. Would like to see something similar in the new game.

[BlackLabel]

Originally Posted by Tiger2

This is because in RO:OST the player has extreme accuracy. You can easily manage to throw it through a small window 50-60 metres away.

No you wont...people have an awefull perception of range in ro.

[Oldih]

Originally Posted by Tiger2

Is anyone able to find reliable statistics about the mkb42?

Even if weapon\thing X was produced between that and that, it can easily take several months before it actually appears noticably among the troops, and old stuff is to be used until supplies runs out (unless they are declared obsolete by some other reason), which applies with many weapons aswell. So even if several Mkb42s saw use, I doubt they saw use in Stalingrad or if they did (unless someone can point some evidence that they were issued in Stalingrad with SUFFICIENT numbers) it has been such limited amount that there's no real point modelling it ingame.

It's like modeling a Maus in a realism based game. As fun as it might be, I don't get the point of having one supertank which never seemed to enter action or even get assembled properly (depending on sources).

[Hackel]

Originally Posted by Bolt

They have only 2 grenades now though, and its' already a spam fest there. Now, if TWI will do as they say - aim for the realism, and actually add the right number of grenades to such assault team members, can you imagine the havoc?

They just need to be toned down to a realistic level.

Grenades need to be less point and click in their usage. Reduce their range down to the average throwing distance of 30 meters. Reduce the speed and pinpoint accuracy of every throw. Add a delay for pulling them out and pulling the second one out after a throw.

That would help deter people from using them like a primary weapon like in RO:O.