Missing Sniper Features

[SgtThompson]

Originally Posted by Richard_B.

When i remember correctyl - and I think I do - , then TWI itself mentioned that there are no snipers in RO, only marksmen.
Oh, and before I forget it: Your poll ist biased - there is no "No Changes"-Option.

Find a dictionary and look up sniper. If they said there were only marksmen in RO, then they should have named the class marksman.

This is all beside the point. What the heck does it matter what someone calls them? What does that have to do with this thread? Nothing. Is it really that difficult to just say you don't agree with the suggestions? What purpose does it serve to start some ridiculous argument about something as trivial as whether sniper or marksman is the "correct" term?

From now on, I'm ignoring the trolls. Go ahead and be negative all you want, it just goes so show what kind of person you are.

For those who gave intelligent feedback, thank you. Those were the responses I was looking for.

[Atomskytten]

It is all quite academic as TWI will not be making anymore new stuff for RO....

[Zetsumei]

Wind would be a nice thing to have but that will stress the engine even more (it should happen for every weapon then not just the sniper rifle).

Time of flight, is already in the game... Although ping got a bigger effect on having to aim ahead than the actual bullet travel time, but thats just because bullets fly pretty darned fast.

Bullet drop is already in the game :\ (but considering you fight pretty much under 100meter and lower most of the cases rifle bullets wont drop much smg bullets and pistol bullets do drop a lot)

Spotter, how would this class ever work in ro, especially at the ranges of ro if you spot someone he has probably moved before the sniper will see him too and shoot him, beside who wants to be a spotter, all the time. Its probably not worth

Vapor trails this is not really realistic as far as i know, and sniper rifles are just normal rifles so then all supersonic weapons should probably have it but in videos i have never seen any vapor trails of bullets. I know lots of games use it to make it easier to spot the sniper to balance the class, but on ro ranges a sniper is easy enough to find I personally don't want another "I'm Here" sign like the MG tracers are atm. Beside the sniper class is limited to overcome its strength over other classes.

Breathing enhancement, breathing is already in the game there just isn't a button bind to hold breath or something. At the start of going to iron sight there is hardly any sway this is to mimic focusing and holding your breath, later on you get a sway effect. Although a button to hold your breath and stabilize your sway for a small time would be nice.

Now something i personally would like for the sniper at least like in a tank the ability to change the range, because with the sniper you often have to put the cross hair over the target if you could change the range so the cross hair would move down then that would be of great help.

But most of these things are mainly things that might be nice for game2 by twi at the current time its probably not worth their time to do stuff like this

Originally Posted by SgtThompson

First of all, go HERE and read up a bit.

Second, they weren't called snipers. They were called sharpshooters or designated marksmen.

Oh, and...

snip·er (snī'pər)
n.

1. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
2. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

Even though they are called sniper in game they are intended by the devs to be marksman with a scoped rifle, because you fight along side a squad and have no special camouflage or whatever. Why they named them sniper I don't know but i believe a marksman in the soviet union was still called sniper (the name marksman doesn't or didn't exist i believe) so that might be the reason.

The german class is called scharfschutze aka sharpshooter but i wonder if there is a german sniper term out.

those 2 points you said are void because you spawn together with any other soldier. The skilled part of the shooter depends on the end player. And shooting from a concealed place depends on the end shooter too more often than not do people not shoot from a concealed place and just shoot from some sandbag or the side of a wall, just like any rifleman in this game does.

[white7]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

Vapor trails this is not really realistic as far as i know, and sniper rifles are just normal rifles so then all supersonic weapons should probably have it but in videos i have never seen any vapor trails of bullets. I know lots of games use it to make it easier to spot the sniper to balance the class, but on ro ranges a sniper is easy enough to find I personally don't want another "I'm Here" sign like the MG tracers are atm. Beside the sniper class is limited to overcome its strength over other classes.

The vapor trail or bullet trace isn't seen by anyone but the spotter or sniper, and to do so you need to put your optics 1/4 out of focus to really see this. Its use is to determine where your round hit or miss. While the round is in flight you can watch it's its path and at longer ranges you will be able to tell if you hit or miss before the round strikes. Its cool IRL but not something that you could really use in-game.

[Peter.Steele]

Originally Posted by TT33

Really since there were pretty few "Sniper rifles" I would think it would be a limited privilege to get one as a marksmen.

There were over 55,000 91/30 PU rifles made. Well over.

[TT33]

Originally Posted by Peter.Steele

There were over 55,000 91/30 PU rifles made. Well over.

Exactly for the Soviet Union that is a tiny ammount compare this to 53,435 or so Ge-43 sniper variants keeping in mind that the Russians always tended to out-produce the Germans and also most of those optics would be sent to "real snipers" marksmen would not take priority.

[Reddog]

Originally Posted by Peter.Steele

There were over 55,000 91/30 PU rifles made. Well over.

Yes and this is against the millions and millions of 91/30's made, it's a tiny percentage in context.

[KrazyKraut]

AFAIK, Soviet doctrine was to have snipers move closely with the infantry groups. So even if they were not called marksmen, they would function more or less like marksmen in the game.

Germans had a different doctrine. They used snipers more like we usually imagine them: More or less seperated from the rest and picking valuable targets on their own. However, they also often had ZF-Schuetzen (ZF for Zielfernrohr or scope) in the groups that are pretty much identical to designated marksmen. This is from memory though, I'm no expert on that.

[Klaus]

cant imagine how you could implement wind in this game except the sounds and that would really make things laggier

[Basil]

Before anything else I'd want adjustable sights. It's pain in the *** to snipe in some bigger maps at long range when you have to overshoot the target and while doing that the sight picture completely covers the intended target. This is especially bad problem with the German sights.

[SgtThompson]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

Vapor trails this is not really realistic as far as i know, and sniper rifles are just normal rifles so then all supersonic weapons should probably have it but in videos i have never seen any vapor trails of bullets. I know lots of games use it to make it easier to spot the sniper to balance the class, but on ro ranges a sniper is easy enough to find I personally don't want another "I'm Here" sign like the MG tracers are atm. Beside the sniper class is limited to overcome its strength over other classes.

Breathing enhancement, breathing is already in the game there just isn't a button bind to hold breath or something. At the start of going to iron sight there is hardly any sway this is to mimic focusing and holding your breath, later on you get a sway effect. Although a button to hold your breath and stabilize your sway for a small time would be nice.

Now something i personally would like for the sniper at least like in a tank the ability to change the range, because with the sniper you often have to put the cross hair over the target if you could change the range so the cross hair would move down then that would be of great help.

those 2 points you said are void because you spawn together with any other soldier. The skilled part of the shooter depends on the end player. And shooting from a concealed place depends on the end shooter too more often than not do people not shoot from a concealed place and just shoot from some sandbag or the side of a wall, just like any rifleman in this game does.

Vapor trails are real, see the video I posted on the previous page. I'm NOT suggesting farcry style trails.

I agree with range adjustments (and windage if wind was added). That would be very useful for long range shots.

Wind doesn't need to be extremely accurate. It can be broken down to 3 stages. No value, Half value, Full value... to the left or right. Front or back = no value, diagonal = half, horizontal = full value.

Lets get off the sniper/marksman topic, it really doesn't matter that much.

[SgtThompson]

Originally Posted by Basil

Before anything else I'd want adjustable sights. It's pain in the *** to snipe in some bigger maps at long range when you have to overshoot the target and while doing that the sight picture completely covers the intended target. This is especially bad problem with the German sights.

I agree, this would be a good place to start.

[Zetsumei]

Originally Posted by SgtThompson

Vapor trails are real, see the video I posted on the previous page. I'm NOT suggesting farcry style trails.

I agree with range adjustments (and windage if wind was added). That would be very useful for long range shots.

Wind doesn't need to be extremely accurate. It can be broken down to 3 stages. No value, Half value, Full value... to the left or right. Front or back = no value, diagonal = half, horizontal = full value.

Lets get off the sniper/marksman topic, it really doesn't matter that much.

The thing is even if wind doesn't need to be accurate implementing it will still be aw full for servers. Remember that in this game every bullet is fired so your mg42 gets 1200 rounds per minute. The only way that i can think of that wind could work without stressing the server too much is changing the angle of the bullet spawn and not changing path at all, but even that would probably take too much.

[Colt .45 killer]

wheres the option to add wanking to sn1pors?

seriously though, the breathing option or the ability to change the range on the scope would be the only usefull aditions, windage really only helps on much longer distances then the average combat in RO.

[IVIARSHALL]

let's wait for Red Orchestra 2, but good Thread, our Devs shall see this! :-)

[SiC-Disaster]

Originally Posted by SgtThompson

Find a dictionary and look up sniper. If they said there were only marksmen in RO, then they should have named the class marksman.

This is all beside the point. What the heck does it matter what someone calls them? What does that have to do with this thread? Nothing. Is it really that difficult to just say you don't agree with the suggestions? What purpose does it serve to start some ridiculous argument about something as trivial as whether sniper or marksman is the "correct" term?

From now on, I'm ignoring the trolls. Go ahead and be negative all you want, it just goes so show what kind of person you are.

For those who gave intelligent feedback, thank you. Those were the responses I was looking for.

I think they just called it a sniper because at first, all class-names were in their correspondent languages.
German riflemen are schutze's, snipers are scharfschutze's, and the russian sniper was called sniper. A literal translation of the german sniper would be sharpshooter.

[Murphy]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

The only way that i can think of that wind could work without stressing the server too much is changing the angle of the bullet spawn and not changing path at all, but even that would probably take too much.

That wouldn't help because the direction of the wind is absolute and changing the angle of the flightpath would simulate something entirely different. A bad barrel maybe.

If bullets were affected by gravity the gravity could be changed to pull a bit to a side. I don't think it would affect jumping too much, but I don't know if bullets work that way in RO.

[Zetsumei]

With wind the flight path would be an horizontal arch but that would probably stress the game too much. The gravity one is a vertical arch but i believe it uses a pre calculated arch thats the same every time If you want different wind types a linear horizontal movement of the bullet is probably the least server stressing.

(aka i mean the angle of spawning depends on wind direction not randomly spawning some way like if you're with the back to the wind the bullet will go straight and if the wind is from the side the bulled will spans say with an angle of 1 or 2 degrees to the right.

In the end i still think its too much work for what it offers though. beside that all maps would need to be changed. Including custom maps.

[SgtH3nry3]

Red Orchestra doesn't have snipers.
Why? Snipers aren't involved in squad action, the sharpshooters in Red Orchestra ARE.

What we are talking about are so-called "SDM's" or squad designated marksmen.

The German term in the game "Scharfschütze" is translated to "marksman", the litteral translation is "sharpshooter".
One of the misconceptions is that "Scharfschütze" translates to the word sniper, which is not true since snipers are called "Heckenschützen".

The Soviets had something similar in the form of squad snipers, which were basically sharpshooters.
I don't know the correct term for it though.

Also like said before, Red Orchestra already has the Coriolis effect aswell as other external ballistics like elevation. (or bulletdrop in favorite terminology)
I don't know if there is a wind effect though, I haven't noticed it though.

And time of flight is definately in the game, to my feeling it's actually too slow.


Also, are you sure that is a vapor trail? It looks more like a vortex-effect which is created when a (hypervelocitious) turning object (read bullet) interferes colder air and warmer air.
Basically punching a hole through the light distortion of a mirage.
It can't be a Prandtl-Glauert singularity since it only distorts vision.
Which is logical since there clearly is a visible mirage in that footage.

The definition you gave: "A bullet trace is a disturbance of air pressure which causes light to be refracted differently. This is similar to what you see in a shadowgraph or schlieren photography" is correct, only misinterpretated.

[Murphy]

Originally Posted by SgtH3nry3

And time of flight is definately in the game, to my feeling it's actually too slow.

This might be due to lag. The time it takes for the bullet to get somewhere is the time the actual bullet takes to fly plus the lag.