Would we be where we are today without Nazi scientists?

[Lonyo]

Serious question, related to this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4443934.stm

Originally Posted by BBC

Major-General Hugh Knerr, deputy commander of the US Air Force in Europe, wrote: "Occupation of German scientific and industrial establishments has revealed the fact that we have been alarmingly backward in many fields of research.

Scientifically without German scientists and WW2 itself (without WW2, Germans may not have pushed technology hard, the US wouldn't have stolen scientists after the war etc) would we still be stuck slightly in the past?

[Tomcat_ha]

While we wouldnt be stuck i believe that wars always promotes scientific development. I think WW2 made it go even faster than normal faster. Im sure without WW2 we would be at least 10 years behind with radar tech for example.

[Waxx]

World War Two did a lot for Aviation especially. It pushed piston engines to their pinnacle, and brought about the introduction of our first jet and rocket powered aircraft. Not to mention all the technology that later went into the US and Soviet space programs!

[Shadehunter]

War's always pushed the tech industry upward... its alot easier to spend a crap load of money in research during war time than it is during peace time... sad but true.

Shadehunter

[WickedPenguin]

Insofar as weapons, many weapon system examples in use today can be traced back to WWII tech advances on both sides:

• The V-2 rocket paved the way for modern ballistic missiles. One of the current X-Cup/X-Prize contenders based their design off of the V-2.
• The MG-42 is the basis for the modern MG-3 machine gun.
• The STG-44 is the founding father of modern assault rifles, firing a medium round and featuring select-fire operation.
• The AK-47 family is founded on the SKS mechanism, which in turn was a miniaturized version of the PTRS anti-tank gun.
• The Germans were the first to field a combat-ready jet aircraft (Me-262) which simultaneously scared the hell out of the Allies and lit a fire under them to get their own jets underway.
• Radar and its use matured (for proximity fuses, anti-air, etc.)
• Code-breaking and espionage matured
• Guided missiles (like the wire-guided anti-shipping missiles the Germans used) were introduced.
• New tactics and strategies came to fruition, such as the German Blitzkrieg, the massive use of air power to annihilate a country's infrastructure, and American island-hopping in thePacific.
• Aircraft carriers rendered surface warships obsolete as long-range offensive forces (until the advent of cruise missiles)
• German V-1 rocket became the predecessor for modern cruise missiles like the Tomahawk

[FYROM]

Originally Posted by Waxx

World War Two did a lot for Aviation especially. It pushed piston engines to their pinnacle, and brought about the introduction of our first jet and rocket powered aircraft. Not to mention all the technology that later went into the US and Soviet space programs!

One thing that is often overlooked is that most of the Soviet space program was homegrown, with little boosting from the Germans. During the Cold War the West claimed that there was "a swastika inside every [Soviet] missile." However, Soviet scientists like Korolyov, Tikhonravov and Glushko were only a few years behind Germany (and well ahead of America), and were already developing their own heavy lift rockets when they got their hands on captured V-2s. Quite probably even without German assistance the Russians would have gotten into space before 1960. While the American space program traces its roots to von Braun, the Russians go back to Korolyov, and earlier Tsiolkovsky.

[Piron]

And for the non violent: medicins, surgery, first aid,... all got a big push from ww2. (From any war actually)

[Legovski]

Yay War

[radix]

you know... since ever the winners make the rules and write the history...

these rules must not be compatible with any human & political or ideological terms.

[murderous_eagle]

Originally Posted by FYROM

One thing that is often overlooked is that most of the Soviet space program was homegrown, with little boosting from the Germans. During the Cold War the West claimed that there was "a swastika inside every [Soviet] missile." However, Soviet scientists like Korolyov, Tikhonravov and Glushko were only a few years behind Germany (and well ahead of America), and were already developing their own heavy lift rockets when they got their hands on captured V-2s. Quite probably even without German assistance the Russians would have gotten into space before 1960. While the American space program traces its roots to von Braun, the Russians go back to Korolyov, and earlier Tsiolkovsky.

If it hadn't been for Stalin's Purges, the German army might have been blasted back right after they invaded (or maybe not, but having a complete chain of command would have helped, yay for exterminating all the officers). Same with the rocket programs(although this point is debatalbe). Much of the soviet rocket research was purged. Before the german vengance weapon programs the soviets had the most knowledge of any country. Saying that Russian space program was lifted from the germans is like saying that Pizza and CDs are alike because they are round.

my 2 cents on the subject

[Biggles]

Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown,
"Ha, Nazi, Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.

Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town,
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.**

You too may be a big hero,
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun.

Tom Lehrer FTW.

[Vlad the Impaler]

Yes, it was Wernher Von Braun and many other former Third Reich scientists who paved the way for America's prominent role during the Space Race.

In my opinion, I think that the race revolved more around actually reaching space than a secondary of objective such as reaching the moon. It just sounds much more monumental and barrier-breaking.

[D.a.L-UnteroffizierG]

without german scientists (especialy medicine) we wouldnt know:

- how long a person yould survive in ice cold water

- how much torture it takes before you die

- how long you could survive with an open skull

- make surgerys without narcotic

etc....

never forget what atrocious research the doctors did in concentration camps. never forget that when you talk about nazi scientist......

[Deathsai]

Originally Posted by D.a.L-UnteroffizierG

without german scientists (especialy medicine) we wouldnt know:

- how long a person yould survive in ice cold water

- how much torture it takes before you die

- how long you could survive with an open skull

- make surgerys without narcotic

etc....

never forget what atrocious research the doctors did in concentration camps. never forget that when you talk about nazi scientist......

Boo-hoo. We can still learn about them and put that behind us.

I think it should be a global law that, for every time a person criticizes the Nazis and Hitler, they must also criticize Communists and Stalin and Mao. Nazis are so damned "overrated" it isn't even funny. The "OH GOD, THE NAZIS WERE THE WORST!" mentality is almost as bad as "OH GOD, AMERICA WON WWII OVER THE GERMANS ALL BY THEMSELVES!" especially in modern America.

Sorry. But this irritates me as much as Black History Month.

[D.a.L-UnteroffizierG]

Originally Posted by Deathsai

Boo-hoo. We can still learn about them and put that behind us.

I think it should be a global law that, for every time a person criticizes the Nazis and Hitler, they must also criticize Communists and Stalin and Mao. Nazis are so damned "overrated" it isn't even funny. The "OH GOD, THE NAZIS WERE THE WORST!" mentality is almost as bad as "OH GOD, AMERICA WON WWII OVER THE GERMANS ALL BY THEMSELVES!" especially in modern America.

Sorry. But this irritates me as much as Black History Month.

Hey, do we talk here about nazis or commies? look at the threat.......
so i dont have to talk about mao or stalin because we are talking here about the nazis. got it?

p.s. nazis were the worst.......

[Mormegil]

Originally Posted by Deathsai

I think it should be a global law that, for every time a person criticizes the Nazis and Hitler, they must also criticize Communists and Stalin and Mao. Nazis are so damned "overrated" it isn't even funny. The "OH GOD, THE NAZIS WERE THE WORST!" mentality is almost as bad as "OH GOD, AMERICA WON WWII OVER THE GERMANS ALL BY THEMSELVES!" especially in modern America.

I don't. I may agree with you, but I'm a big supporter of 1st Amendment / Freedom of Speech

Sorry. But this irritates me as much as Black History Month.

I get the feeling you don't believe that racism really "exists" in America today.

[[CoFR]BooBoo]

I'm going to rephrase the original question a bit, to one that you may truly have to think about...

Where would we be today without German scientists?

(Note for the knee-jerk reactionaries: German means of German origin, not necessarily of German nationality)

[D3terioNation]

Deathsai, you'r an idiot.

About the 'research' carried out on jewish men, woman AND children (and other minorities), not a single thing was learned that is used today in medicine!!!

I hope those evil ****s are getting pineapples shoved up their arses in hell along with that deformed freak, hitler

[Switchblade]

This has gone far enough now, time to put a stop to it.