Tcherkassy : Final Version

[Divinehammer]

Have you thought about making a new version where the arty protection is better for the germans like right up to and including the house but not down the hill? Arty can be dropped practically on top of the spawn.

[7-CLOWN-7]

From talking with people the zombie bug is server related not map or texture related or even client related so to speak.

All that needs done to eliminate the zombie bug, but has to be done by the server admin is putting a few lines in the redochestra.ini file. Once this file is edited on the server there is no more zombie bug. This has been done to fix ParazerPlatz and even the new Pavlov's House. It's up to the server admins to fix the bug not a mapper or client.

Here is all that needs done: Add these lines to your redochestra.ini under this section where some should already be: [Engine.GameEngine]

ServerPackages=EH-M43Uniforms
ServerPackages=G_Late1StandardMod
ServerPackages=G_Late2StandardMod
ServerPackages=G_Late3StandardMod
ServerPackages=G_Late4StandardMod
ServerPackages=G_Late5StandardMod
ServerPackages=G_M43OakCamo1SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43OakCamo2SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43OakCamo3SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43OakCamo4SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43OakCamo5SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43Standard1SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43Standard2SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43Standard3SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43Standard4SSMod
ServerPackages=G_M43Standard5SSMod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatA_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatB_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatC_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatD_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatE_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatF_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatG_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatH_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatI_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatJ_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatK_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatL_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatM_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatN_Mod
ServerPackages=RKKA_M41PaddedCoatO_Mod
ServerPackages=R_Late1GreatcoatMod
ServerPackages=R_Late2GreatcoatMod
ServerPackages=R_Late3GreatcoatMod
ServerPackages=R_Late4GreatcoatMod
ServerPackages=R_Late5GreatcoatMod
ServerPackages=R_Late1StandardMod
ServerPackages=R_Late2StandardMod
ServerPackages=R_Late3StandardMod
ServerPackages=R_Late4StandardMod
ServerPackages=R_Late5StandardMod
ServerPackages=ROEffects
ServerPackages=ROEngine
ServerPackages=ROGame
ServerPackages=ROAmmo
ServerPackages=ROInventory
ServerPackages=ROInterface
ServerPackages=RORoles
ServerPackages=Volkssturm
ServerPackages=WaffenSSCamo44
ServerPackages=VS1MOD
ServerPackages=VS2MOD
ServerPackages=VS3MOD
ServerPackages=VS4MOD
ServerPackages=VS5MOD
ServerPackages=VS6MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44_1MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44_2MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44_3MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44_4MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44_5MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44_6MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44Tanker1MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44Tanker2MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44Tanker3MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44Tanker4MOD
ServerPackages=WSSCamo44Tanker5MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinter1MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinter2MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinter3MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinter4MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinter5MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinter6MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinter7MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinter8MOD
ServerPackages=WSSWinterTanker1MOD

With all of these added it should fix all zombie bugs for all current maps available. Our server 2Manny's has been zombie free with these additions on all the customs we run. Hope this helps. Feel free to add this to your redorchestra.ini also have the files on the server as well.

So get those textures back in there so the folks can have their WinterCamo... LOL. This way too this explanation above doesn't need editing to remove those lines tied to your (X-textures)...

[Divinehammer]

So I have PM'ed the owner of this map with no response I am thinking of patching this map up with some sort of spawn protection for the Germans. i would like to know what the community thinks? I think that I may put a no arty volume back in the last german spawn that is all it really needs I think.

[7-CLOWN-7]

Agreed. It is kind of ridiculous that people have to exploit this on that map and others. There should be a no spawn arty for all maps but this map definitely needs fixed.

[Rear]

escaz went inactive a long time ago (up to 6 months ago maybe) so you might struggle to contact him

[worluk]

let the map raping beginn \o/
seems like its that time now for Ostfront. Same happened in the mod after most were gone. Mappers leave the game and others think "hey, cant reach them, ah, gonna edit it anyway"

[Slyk]

If you don't "own" it, don't touch it. No one has a right to alter another's work without their permission. There are no entitlements. Period. If you can't find him and get permission, then so be it.

There is a can of worms here due to the TWI release of the map; common courtesy and respect should prevail.

[Divinehammer]

Well I have made an attempt to contact the owner via PM and this post so I think I am being plenty respectful. It does seem that he is inactive but his map is not. I am only trying to make an adjustment to cut out some of the gripes on the servers this exploit runs many players out.

[worluk]

so, well, i guess i like Dubrava better with another Spawnlayout, think im just gonna do it then

[7-CLOWN-7]

IMO - I think by simply changing spawns, spawn arty, loadouts etc. is not changing a map, as long as the textures and the map layout (building, cover, routes) and meshes and so on are not tampered with.

It's really no different than making a mod such as Armored Beasts that change everything about vehicles etc.

Divine what you should do is create a mod that allows server admins to change everything about every map PERIOD, as far as turning on or off arty period, changing amount of snipers or loadouts per team etc. Then you simply have a mod. That way you aren't messing with the maps as I mentioned, plus add a feature to give all maps DYNAMIC spawns or capture points - I think this is a much needed feature... LOL

So personally I think if you want to change spawns on Dubrava so be it... I'm sure Divine would love to see another spawn layout that works and with the MOD I mentioned if created everyone could change every map to their liking per their server...

Hasn't some servers already done this with many of the maps already, creating a change of pace and such???

[18Bravo]

Why not just make it a punishable offense on the server, than going and altering someone's work?

[worluk]

Originally Posted by 7-CLOWN-7

It's really no different than making a mod such as Armored Beasts that change everything about vehicles etc.

err, yeah, it IS different. It is taking someones work and changing it not adding something that makes it work differently.

As for anyone changing a map, you are always assuming that the changes would be an improvement in th original authors view. Without asking you will never know, so just leave it be.

Also i dont see in how far "others have done it" is an argument on this...

As for a mod allowing to change spawns, believe me you dont even want to get near the spawnsystem code, been there done that.

[Divinehammer]

Originally Posted by worluk

so, well, i guess i like Dubrava better with another Spawnlayout, think im just gonna do it then

More power to you I have never tried to keep anything from the community which is who I made it for, I have changed up the spawn layouts as well so they are much closer but if you have a better idea I havent seen your suggestions I dont think.
Do you agree or not agree that setting arty right out of spawn is an exploit that turns people off to the map?

[Divinehammer]

Originally Posted by worluk

err, yeah, it IS different. It is taking someones work and changing it not adding something that makes it work differently.

It is precisely adding something that makes it work differently. Adding a no arty volume would make it work different. Though the strategy would be the same as it is currently.

[worluk]

Unless you ask Escaz you will never know if it was intended that way and therefore would break the gameplay he intended for his map or if it is an exploit.

As for "adding something", no, you are modifying the mapfile, which, even in your book is a change.

[Divinehammer]

Originally Posted by worluk

Unless you ask Escaz you will never know if it was intended that way and therefore would break the gameplay he intended for his map or if it is an exploit.

As for "adding something", no, you are modifying the mapfile, which, even in your book is a change.

I will agree it changes the mapfile, but really it is no different than a mod which also changes gameplay as this change will do. Essentially we are just talking about changing the gameplay. Changing the map just allows the change in gameplay without investing so much on producing a Mod.

[worluk]

One is changing the authors work, the other one isnt...

[Slyk]

No one has any right or entitlement to alter someone else's work. There is no valid argument otherwise. The "community" owns nothing. When content is released like vehicles, textures, code, etc, then you obviously have rights to use it. When it comes to changing and releasing altered versions of maps, it first serves to pollute and confuse people about versions etc. If the exploits are that big of a deal, remove the map from rotation.

There are far too many slime ball hackers out there that have mucked up far more maps and code than actually helped. The "It is there so it is mine" attitude is garbage. It's a punk attitude that has no place in any decent community. Don't be part of it, find a non-invasive solution or move on.

In CoD, as server admins, we were often times able to fix off-map exploits by adding a file to the server that would add in blocking volumes to cover the exploit area. I am unaware if a similar thing could be done in the UT engine. If you could find a way to code changes, and run that file alongside the map like a plug-in, then I don't think any integrity issues are a problem.

[fiftyone]

This map was tested to the hilt, changes were made during the process.
The play was deemed balanced and correct.

I would try again to contact Escaz before anything.
Besides, is this not a TW update ?

IMHO...

[cpl_hans_buckeye]

Changing a map author's work without their permission should not be done.

The Tcherkassy exploit is real with arty placed on German uphill rush to the last HQ objective if the Russian SL is able to place it in this spot. If I get the Russ SL position, I will only put arty directly left or right of their HQ and not take advantage of the exploit...being more interested in a challenging game than winning by default.

When on the German side, always 'chat' to the team not to go right. Some will not listen of course. The cap zone extends to the left of HQ and makes it much more difficult to swing to the right of HQ while on top of the hill...again creating a more challenging game!

As for Dubrava, the author was contacted and in this case he made multiple changes and created Dubrava-Pub. These changes were placed to recognize the lack of team play on public servers. Unfortunately, even with these changes, the German's have never succeeded to capture the first spawn point every time I played and soon the map became a server clearer, and therefore, removed. This is a real shame since it's a great map. If Tcherkassy is changed with the arty protection zone, the map may tilt back to one where the Russians never win. It works in it's current form and has become a favorite of many players from what I've seen.