RO-Zhitomir1941 Beta 3

[JAKL]

The After-Hourz Red Orchestra Development Team is proud to announce the release of Zhitomir 1941 Beta 3 (a map by Drecks).

Change Log:

* Minor graphical tweaks and fixes
* Opened access to new room in Basement building overlooking Church Park
* Moved German spawn forward to inside basement once Krasnaja apartment is capped
* Moved Russian spawn forward once only objective left is Warehouse
* Decreased round time to 20 minutes
* More detail and furniture added


SCREENSHOTS

DOWNLOAD

Historical Background:

8 July 1941: Almost three weeks since the start of Operation Barbarossa the motorized LSSAH reached the woods around the city of Zhitomir. The speed of it's advance left them without their infantry support and countless Soviet counterattacks, infantry combined with T34's almost made the situation critical.

9 July: The city of Zhitomir was captured, but Soviets kept their stubborn defense until the 16th of July.

Generaloberst Franz Halder wrote:

"The enemy is sending into the battle every day new units we never imagined he could have or could mobilize so fast. Russia seems to have an unlimited supply of forces and our intelligence had been badly off the mark."

Tactical Information:

This is a strictly Infantry Urban assault/defend map where the Axis must capture all of the objectives in order to win the round. There are five objectives with the first two being closed after they have been taken by the Axis. The third objective (Krasnaja Apartments) must be taken in order to open up the fourth objective (Church Park). Once the Church Park has been capped, the final objective (Warehouse) will be opened and the Krasnaja Apartments will be closed. If the Allies retake the Church Park, the Krasnaja Apartments will be re-opened so the Axis will want to make sure they cover their flanks on their assault of the Warehouse.

[StardogChampion]

I played a version of this yesterday and me and a few others kept dying from walking into spawn areas 100 times. It didn't seem clear where they were. Hopefully that's changed!

[Jaesperson]

looks promising, but the but the download link looks ****ed up on the other hand

[JAKL]

Originally Posted by Jaesperson

looks promising, but the but the download link looks ****ed up on the other hand

Download link works fine. Once you go to the page, click on Zhitomir 1941 Beta 3. On the next page click download. I just tested it again to verify and it works fine. Six other people have already downloaded so if there's something I'm missing, let me know.

[Drecks]

Originally Posted by StardogChampion

I played a version of this yesterday and me and a few others kept dying from walking into spawn areas 100 times. It didn't seem clear where they were. Hopefully that's changed!

Well what can i say.

Walking into a spawn area a 100 times is very weird way to play this game.
Usually when i have walked into a spawnarea once my goal is not to do it twice.

Maybe you can clarify which spawnarea at which point in the map ?

Played this map a 100 times on several servers. These people didn't have that problem.
Or they decide not to tell me just to screw me. Which i can fully understand.
Feedback is expensive anyway.

[Jaesperson]

Originally Posted by JAKL

Download link works fine. Once you go to the page, click on Zhitomir 1941 Beta 3. On the next page click download. I just tested it again to verify and it works fine. Six other people have already downloaded so if there's something I'm missing, let me know.

uh, didnt see that. i just clicked on the first clickable sign that said "download" and got into some html-code stuff. thanks for the help.

man, i wish more euro servers would regularly play custom maps that look like this instead of stalingrad, danzig odessa and konigsplatz all the time...

[Drecks]

Have just submitted Zhitomir Beta 3 for the contest and i'm glad it's done.
Since beta 1 i have seeked a better balance.
But playing the map on public servers you have to rely on teamplay and
the kind of players who join to get a good view about the balance.

During Beta 2 i shouted my lungs out for people to get in the capzone.
But no matter where i played it the Axis 8 out of 10 didn't get passed the
Krasny Apartment or the Allies lost by reinforcement.

So I decide to let the Allies spawn a bit more back once they lost the Krasny
Apartment and the Axis spawn in the Basement so they can guard the apartment
and head for the Church Park.

This means the Allies should keep the first three objectives as long as possible.
And once they lost the Krasny Apartment secure the Churchpark as long as
possible. It might help the Allies i shortend the playtime to 20 minutes.

Gonna take a break now and let my computer cool down a little
at least that's what i promised my wife.

Greetz Drecks

[=GG= Mr Moe]

A+++++++++ !!!!!

[EvilHobo]

For a 1941 map you should consider a reduction of G41s (a total of three currently), and SMGs. Give the Germans one Semi-Auto Rifleman, and remove the G41 for the Gruppenfuhrer. As it stands, three G41s can really ruin the Russians' day in the hands of good players. For an early war map, they would not have ben as abundant. Same goes for SMGs, tone those down just a tad.

[Drecks]

Originally Posted by EvilHobo

For a 1941 map you should consider a reduction of G41s (a total of three currently), and SMGs. Give the Germans one Semi-Auto Rifleman, and remove the G41 for the Gruppenfuhrer. As it stands, three G41s can really ruin the Russians' day in the hands of good players. For an early war map, they would not have ben as abundant. Same goes for SMGs, tone those down just a tad.

I would have loved this feedback a few weeks ago......
For example during beta 1 and 2....
But I keep any feedback and suggestions in mind for the final product.

[Mike_Nomad]

Originally Posted by EvilHobo

For a 1941 map you should consider a reduction of G41s (a total of three currently), and SMGs. Give the Germans one Semi-Auto Rifleman, and remove the G41 for the Gruppenfuhrer. As it stands, three G41s can really ruin the Russians' day in the hands of good players. For an early war map, they would not have ben as abundant. Same goes for SMGs, tone those down just a tad.

Setting this map up for tourney use too?? We had this years ago in the other platform.... you want tourney maps?? Make 'em yourself. Or, make a mutator to set up tourney maps. But don't please don't bridle all of us to such. All I've seen you do is ask for weapons limits, personnel limits and other tourney specific looking requests. Lighten up, not everyone is a clammer.

[Mike_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Drecks

I would have loved this feedback a few weeks ago......
For example during beta 1 and 2....
But I keep any feedback and suggestions in mind for the final product.

Drecks, Zhitomir1941 is one of the best fun maps out there.... please, keep it the way it is. All our players love this map just the way it is.

[Slyk]

Personally, Drecks, I can see Hobo's points but at the same time it really depends on who you are playing with. I seldom take a semi on this map but did the last couple times just to try it. I **** with it and usually end up with a rifle or MG on the Russian side and a MP40, if I can get one, playing German. I'd prefer one less semi all around but do what you think is best or in regard to the majority of feedback. It is tough to take away any semi or auto weapons from the Germans as their job is already a tough one attacking.

[Drecks]

It all depends on players and feedback. I see it this way.

A mapper makes a map. And try to gather a group to test it.
These test show some stuff but certainly not all bottlenecks and flaws.

So the mapper decide to release a Beta 1. And hope the community will
rape his work and will post there thoughts and suggestions.

With the release of these 2 beta versions i recieved some feedback and suggestions but not as much i hoped so i decided to play it myself as much as possible. This experience together with the feedback i got and the feedback i got from JakL made me tweak it like the way it is now.

Compared with the previous versions, beta 3 seems more different for the Allied team. Their tactic is to keep the first three objectives as long as possible.

When they lost the Krasnaja Apartment they spawn a tad further away from the Krasnaja apartment so they must really decide what to do. Defend the park or attack the Krasnaja.

At this points i have new tweaks in mind. Iff a weapon tweak is needed it will be there. But this suggestion would need more examples of the same kind.

Then another thing you can't tweak are the players who play the map.

Greetz Drecks

[EvilHobo]

Originally Posted by Mike_Nomad

Setting this map up for tourney use too?? We had this years ago in the other platform.... you want tourney maps?? Make 'em yourself. Or, make a mutator to set up tourney maps. But don't please don't bridle all of us to such. All I've seen you do is ask for weapons limits, personnel limits and other tourney specific looking requests. Lighten up, not everyone is a clammer.

Oh no, EvilHobo likes to play with something resembling tactics! Shun him! Shun!

I'm sorry. I'll try to cater my feedback to suit a more unorganized and generally senseless mob of pubbers.

[Mike_Nomad]

Originally Posted by EvilHobo

Oh no, EvilHobo likes to play with something resembling tactics! Shun him! Shun!

I'm sorry. I'll try to cater my feedback to suit a more unorganized and generally senseless mob of pubbers.

Amazing... how one can betray themselves while vainly attempting dark humor, they reveal their true conceit and contemptable attitudes in regard to others.

[Slyk]

And so the first sign that someone disagrees with you Mike means that they are conceited? Hobo is stating his opinions no more than you. People are going to agree with him, some with you. Does that make either of you right or wrong? Depends I suppose on what the mapper wants in the end. It does feel like a general dumbing-down for the masses is the current wave around here. What has always set RO apart from the other genre-like games has been that it isn't like them and while I agree a map should be accessible to the most players and their styles as possible, I still don't believe it should be made 'mob friendly', to borrow a reference. If people want to play objective-less run-and-gun maps there are games out there offering that. You begging Drecks to leave the map 'as it is' is no different than Hobo or anyone else asking him to consider changing it.

The best maps combine good brushwork, textures, detail placement, objective layout, and battle flow among other elements. Making maps tactical-leaning, in my opinion, should be part of their design also as that is one of RO's strongest legs to stand on. Since when is making teamwork a design element evil? To many it is the strongest point of many maps, how can it be the weakest now?

What I like about Zhitomer is that in any other game (example CoD) it would be an SMG players heaven. In RO it might be here and there but overall it isn't. Each role has areas to specialize in covering/clearing. Considering one less semi or auto here and there isn't a bad thing but it doesn't mean that is what Drecks wants or will do. Ultimately it's his choice.

[Mike_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Slyk

And so the first sign that someone disagrees with you Mike means that they are conceited? Hobo is stating his opinions no more than you. People are going to agree with him, some with you. Does that make either of you right or wrong? Depends I suppose on what the mapper wants in the end. It does feel like a general dumbing-down for the masses is the current wave around here. What has always set RO apart from the other genre-like games has been that it isn't like them and while I agree a map should be accessible to the most players and their styles as possible, I still don't believe it should be made 'mob friendly', to borrow a reference. If people want to play objective-less run-and-gun maps there are games out there offering that. You begging Drecks to leave the map 'as it is' is no different than Hobo or anyone else asking him to consider changing it.

Why not READ how he disagrees first??? A tad of sarcasm, a bit of disrespect and a condemnation of an entire segment of the RO community, the pubbers. If I'm not mistaken, this very same ground was covered in the "old days" when the comp guys wanted everything limited and narrowed. Ultimately, it was determined that the maps should be written to allow EVERYONE or, at least the majority of players, enjoy them and let the mods (nowadays mutators) customize them.

Hobo, like myself is neither right nor wrong... He's campaigning for the maps to cater to clammers and I for pubbers. We all must never forget two things;

• the maps are supposed to be for everyone.
• we are all in this together.

The best maps combine good brushwork, textures, detail placement, objective layout, and battle flow among other elements. Making maps tactical-leaning, in my opinion, should be part of their design also as that is one of RO's strongest legs to stand on. Since when is making teamwork a design element evil? To many it is the strongest point of many maps, how can it be the weakest now?

Ummm... teamwork is up to the players ... not a map, the map only compliments the player's skills.

What I like about Zhitomer is that in any other game (example CoD) it would be an SMG players heaven. In RO it might be here and there but overall it isn't. Each role has areas to specialize in covering/clearing. Considering one less semi or auto here and there isn't a bad thing but it doesn't mean that is what Drecks wants or will do. Ultimately it's his choice.

To get back on topic once again, Drecks of course, is the mapper and makes the final decisions. RO-Zhitomir1941 is an excellent, fun map. Why fix wot ain't broken?

[Slyk]

Of course, Mike. You are always right. How silly of me.

[EvilHobo]

Originally Posted by Mike_Nomad

Why not READ how he disagrees first??? A tad of sarcasm, a bit of disrespect and a condemnation of an entire segment of the RO community, the pubbers.

I see. Because going through and basically insulting me as being a "clammer" in response to every shred of feedback I have recently provided to several maps is not disrespectful at all.

Thank you for being a beacon of wisdom. You are always right.