New Weapons Discussion (Merged)

[Nugetti23]

Game really need the nagant revolver.
Mauser c96 would be ok too.

[Rameusb5]

I want the pistol, the select fire version, AND the Nagant Revolver.

More weapon choices = good.


I also like Issak Johnson's ideas to limit the Mauser so that is isn't the only pistol we see on maps. (Though I would suggest the "attach bayonet" button to attach/detatch the stock).

To be honest, I would like to see the select-fire version because right now the German SMG choices aren't that great. A rare (officer only) inclusion of this weapon would give the Germans more choices. To impliment this, simply treat the full-auto Mauser as a primary weapon only available to German Officers. If they chose it, they do NOT get a pistol.

There's a lot of custom maps where the German riflemen get Lugers. I'd rather see them equipped with Mausers (semi-only).

[FatPartizan]

Originally Posted by Zoring

No no what your thinking of Partisan is the only C96 to be adopted by the German millitary which was the 9mm Luger version known as the 'Red 9' due to the number stamped on the handle. The numbers i have say that 150,000 were manufactured for the German army.

The commercial 7.63 model was in production from 1896 to the late 30's with many more being made than the 9mm version, it was exported extensivley and used (though never officaly adopted) by the German army

I have some questions

1. How many mausers C-96 have been lost in WW1 operations?
2. You are assured that a mauser C-96 were not transferred fleet, other organizations?
3. How many C-96 it has appeared at opponents of Germany? How many remains in warehouses, in territories which have been left by the German army? Many German parts have been disarmed by local groups.
4. How many mausers C-96 front-line soldiers have simply dragged off home as souvenirs?
5. How many mausers C-96 have been lost during events connected with internal conflicts in Germany? After the conclusion of the world.
6. Manufacture of long mausers was forbidden by the Versailles contract. Here I am not confident. Whether German militarians had an opportunity to use such weapon?
7. What volume is lost because of natural deterioration, mechanical damages?
8. In what condition there was a weapon to the beginning of the second war? It was stored in warehouses or it was constantly used in armies?
9. How many pistols have been lost in operations from 01.09.39 till 22.06.41 ?
10. I have found nothing about large purchases of mausers by German army. SS , at the beginning purchased them in the secondary market, the German army too bought them but in a small amount.
Example:

The Astra Modelo 900 was a copy of the famous Mauser C96 "Broomhandle" . According to the author Jan Still:

"In 1927, Astra developed a pistol similar in general appearance and function to the Mauser 1896; however, it was a simplified and improver version made of high quality materials and of excellent fit and finish. It was termed the Model 900, and from 1928 to 1944, about 20,900 were manufactured. In March 1943, 1,500 Astra 900's were purchased by the German Army Headquarters at Hendeye, France. These were not German Army acceptance stamped, bear full Spanish commercial proofs and are identified by serial number. The factory serial numbers are: 2955 to29600, 29649 to29650, 29655 to29660, 29667 to 29675 and 32788 to33774. The total quantity delivered to the Germans was 1,050". (Axis Pistols page 120)

If you have something on this theme, please lay out.

20.000 - 30.000 it is very optimistical number.

[[TW]schneidzekk]

Numbers for 1914 till 1923 are hard to find (considering WW1, i would say alot)

Mauser made 200,000 9 mm versions starting July 1917

1924 43,154 (7.63)
1925 35,982 (7.63)
1926 38,371 (7.63)
1927-1940 345,572 (7.63)

The full auto versions are not included, roughly 100,000 were made till WW2 started.

These numbers include guns which were exported to other countries, can't say how many.

[IncredibleGeek]

That's still more produced than the G41, and that was put in game.

[Zoring]

Even counting ONLY post war production that's over 500,000 in 7.63 only. That's more even then (and this is only wikipedia so its probably not right on the money) the StG44 with 430,000 produced and the G43 with 450,000 made (including sniper variants).

It dosen't seem likely with the German armies desperate need for firearms that they would do nothing with this large number of pistols made.

[MauserKar98k]

Originally Posted by Isaak Johnson

But my idea is, since the normal C96 doesn't have a select fire of any kind like the Schnellfeur variant, maybe the "select fire" key could be used to attach and detach the holster/stock.

In reality, if you have your C96 in its holster and you pull it out, you can use the pistol that way. But if you want to fire better, then you need to take the time to attach your holster to use it as a stock, which also means you have to detach the holster to be able to put the pistol away again. Also, having the stock on would be better for long distances and would be harder to use indoors because you could turn faster if it didn't have the stock equipped.

What do you guys think about that?

I like this idea, using the "select fire" key to attach the stock to the pistol and improve the accuracy. That would be pretty ground-breaking and would likely have a really cool-looking animation.

[Heler]

Originally Posted by IncredibleGeek

They put in a semi-auto that loads with stripper clips just for realism's sake. Who cares about reload time?

My M14 can be loaded with stripper clips...

[Zoring]

If you added a 'attach stock' command to the C96, the draw time should be significantly increased (no holster, maybe he tucks it into his belt or something) as compensation for having more accuracy, whilst it acts liek a regular pistol without it.

That way there's an advantage to both, want to clear a room? snap on your holster, fierce fire fights in hallways out of ammo? whip out that pistol

[Mauser98k]

Remember, there was a c96 rifle that was used in the 80's, what we want is the pistol with detachable stock

And the stock for the c96 was in fact a holster for it, and then you had a leather cover that you stuck it in on your belt.

[FatPartizan]

Originally Posted by IncredibleGeek

That's still more produced than the G41, and that was put in game.

Let's give German sappers chain[FONT=Arial CYR]-[/FONT]saws, and Soviet axes. Them in fact have made much more than C[FONT=Arial CYR]-96[/FONT].
It will be very qool .

[KrazyKraut]

Originally Posted by [RO]schneidzekk

Numbers for 1914 till 1923 are hard to find (considering WW1, i would say alot)

Mauser made 200,000 9 mm versions starting July 1917

1924 43,154 (7.63)
1925 35,982 (7.63)
1926 38,371 (7.63)
1927-1940 345,572 (7.63)

The full auto versions are not included, roughly 100,000 were made till WW2 started.

These numbers include guns which were exported to other countries, can't say how many.

I'd be careful with those numbers as the C96 was exported a lot. I got the image it was still rather rare on the battlefield.

[mat69]

And russians used this weapon as well.
So should both teams have it?!

[FatPartizan]

Originally Posted by mat69

And russians used this weapon as well.
So should both teams have it?!

After civil war remains very little [FONT=Arial CYR]С-96[/FONT]. Or as souvenirs at veterans, or in museums. In 1926-30 30.000 mausers have been purchased . It were short bolo-mausers. They could appear in parts of NKVD, but it is very few .
In 1943 V.I.Brezhnev have presented mauser [FONT=Arial CYR]С-96[/FONT].

There can be still who from generals had such the weapon.
Chance to meet a mauser in army 1/1000000

[Quietus]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype]The C96 was one of the first successful semi auto pistols made and had been issued during World war 1. When World war 2 began Germany had a shortage of pistols, they had many of the Mausers in storage so the C96 was once again issued.[/FONT]

[Nugetti23]

Why u just put it back?
I didn't even know that pistol were there before.
I really love that gun, my grandpap have that pistol [mauser c96]
So it were cool to see that in RO.

[Zoring]

Oh also if you look at the fall of the Reichstag pictures one of the Russians on the roof is very prominently carrying a C96 (im not making this an extra point on why you should include it or anything i just find it interesting to see)

I could only find this crappily edited version (3am cant be fagged) but if anyone has seen the orgional you can see the middle guy with a C96

[mat69]

I have the picture in a book and there you can see the C96 very easily. Allthough that is still not a prove of the numbers of C96 used by Russians, but it is better than nothing.

[Nugetti23]

Mauser are german guns. NOT RUSSIANS.

[IncredibleGeek]

Originally Posted by Nugetti23

Mauser are german guns. NOT RUSSIANS.

The point they're trying to make is that the C-96 was around enough for even some Russians to have. I wasn't some super-rare pistol that only the upper echelons carried.

And if the poll means anything, I'd say it had darn well better be included in the future.