just a few bothering things. (oppinion)

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

Handguns
- Should get Fixed ironsight and speed
A long time has this been discussed already.
The ironsight for hand guns are to close near the face and there use should be way faster or different compared to other weapons. Hand guns are not as clumpsy like rifles. It was sugested one time, to alow "walking" with the hand guns in iron sight for example.
Also, another thing is as well, that you see with the animation, where the shoter holds them in both hands, but in iron sight you see them only used by one hand. It always was a bit disturbing.

iron sight and bolting
- a change with bolting maybe? Or even eventual REAL manual bolting?
Something that killed me sometimes, is the "hight adjustment" the player is doing. Not that its unrealistic, but maybe it should be changed for the time when you bolt after a direct shot, cause i could have been saved a lot of times, if the player would go in cover just for this time you use the bolt.

another often discussed feature i hope much to see, is manual bolting, where you can reject a round of your rifle ANY time you want. Also i would love that for any weapon that makes use of striper clips like the G41. A short animation that just reloads the bolt (like usual) but you eject a round, without shoting. Times when you defend/captured, and know the enemy is close but you do not want to give away your position by "shoting" the rounds out so you can reload would make the game less frustrating. If you have the dicision, what will you gone be to do? Shot or just reload to eject the round so you can use fresh a clip? Of course with the knowledge that a enemy is close ...

Tanks
- more penetration possibilities.
Im not sure if it has been overlook or if it is a feature. But the armor for the IS2 is just to heavy and good compared to german guns (Panther/Tiger). With a ditstance from 600 or 1000m there is no doubt that a richochet is very possible (talking here about late war IS2 models with fixed angled armor plattes). But it is very anyoing to have the IS2 100m in front of you as enemy, but not beeing able to penetrate it cause it is angled. But the IS2 can still destroy you on near any range (at least the maps he is available), even if the german tanks are well angled, which is realistic. A lot of shells will richochet from a Tigers armor if he is angled toward the IS2, but there are ways how you still can penetrate the Tiger/Panther armor, which is as said realistic and makes sense.But you can waste your whole amunition at the IS2 armor without ANY effect. This should be changed. At least the armor would start after enough hits to shatter probably if you hit the same spot several times and im not sure if a IS2 really can resist 20 panther or tiger shells. There have been also times where direct hits between turret and hull richochet. But tanks need more weak spots in general, to give also the medium tanks (T34/85,Panzer IV F2, Panzer IV H) more chance as well against heavy tanks. It would also ad more skill to kill tanks on large distance.
Example.

-The tank chains should be much more vulnerable to direct hits.
-Hits between hull and turret should do damage.
-(if possible!) no endless richochets on the same spot, slight damage after some time.


- move to tourn around, with damaged chains
something that would be very nice to see as well, when possible, the use of a single tank chain. If one chain is damaged, driving should at least tourn your tank around! that way, you could hit advancing Tigers chaincs, so he would start to tourn and show his weak side, that can be penetrated even by medium tanks like T34/76 and KV1.




sorry for errors and gramatical probels. But some points anoyed me a long time, so i thought i share them with others.

[SiC-Disaster]

i agree on the emptying rifle clips.
there have been a lot of moments where i need 5 bullets for my plan to work, but i have only 1 left, and i have to shoot that one out to reload but then i get spotted/heard, and usually my plan goes to hell when some smg dude rushes in when i reload.
just bolting the round out, and then reloading would be great. you could lose the round.

[BSE|Vietcong]

Agree to 2 points that I'd really love to see:

> Manual bolting

> Tanks:
It bugs me a little when I perfectly hit the weak spot between turret and hull (normally 90°, especially on a T34/85, where this area is quite big) or I perfectly hit the shot trap on a Panther, but it bouces up not down.

I'd love to see this. The tracks should be easier to disable, too. I once hit one track with multiple AP and then with 5 HE shells (total of ~12 hits) and it still worked :P (enemy was a Panther)

[malice]

Originally Posted by BSE|Vietcong

Agree to 2 points that I'd really love to see:

> Manual bolting

> Tanks:
It bugs me a little when I perfectly hit the weak spot between turret and hull (normally 90°, especially on a T34/85, where this area is quite big) or I perfectly hit the shot trap on a Panther, but it bouces up not down.

I'd love to see this. The tracks should be easier to disable, too. I once hit one track with multiple AP and then with 5 HE shells (total of ~12 hits) and it still worked :P (enemy was a Panther)

well I dont think that weak spot is modelled in the game so thats is why its not working.

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

indeed. But i think the game has so far for no tanks reall weak spots. You either just penetrate or NOT penetrate the tank. But i could be wrong, cause sometimes you still get damage even when the round richochet.

Someone told me, that the only tank where the hull and turret are have different values for armor, is the Tiger, but as said ... i just catched that up in a conversation, so dont quote me on that.

Thats why i mean, with future updates (when possible) tanks should get more weak spots, where you can at least "damage" them, even when they are angled, so it takes a bit skill to hit this spots on large distance, but possible. Of course always with the gun you use in mind, a T34/76 will need a hell lot of luck to kill a tiger frontal on 600 or 1000m (but its not impossible! Thast the way the british troops disabled the first tiger they ever seen, in africa! a small round hit the spot between turret and hull, so the crew was not able to move the turret anymore! And the enemy was able to capture a full working tiger, the tiger can be still seen today in brittain i think).

[Zell]

Manual bolting: Reload key manually ejects each round while there are rounds still in the rifle, and it just simply uses the existing bolting animations. Fire key still bolts the rifle after firing. No new animations required whatsoever, and no chance of accidentally ejecting a round when you meant to fire. This is how I think it should be done, can't think of an easier way to implement it.

[Letum]

Its hard to comment on so many suggestions at once. I think all of them have already been posted as well.

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

Originally Posted by Letum

Its hard to comment on so many suggestions at once. I think all of them have already been posted as well.

well i seen no thread about single moving tank chains!

[Chuc]

I say double up the functions and put manual bolting with the change MG barrel. Really, who cycles a machine gun and who changes a rifle barrel?

[Jaesperson]

ireally support the pistol IS suggestion and the manual bolting suggestion (which really has been discussed a few times). the "real manual bolting" would have made virtual life way easier for me a few times, it´s a great idea!

the one tracked tank suggestion is ok i think, but is it really realistic?
if a tank lost its track, wouldnt it drive straight forward until the broken track ends and then dig the trackless side into the ground because of its heaviness (depends on the grounds quality, but most of the time it´s simple muddy earth and not that solid anyway, i think)? maybe a nice and full 90° turn wouldnt occur that often then...

[BeserkWraithlor]

Handguns
- Should get Fixed ironsight and speed
A long time has this been discussed already.
The ironsight for hand guns are to close near the face and there use should be way faster or different compared to other weapons. Hand guns are not as clumpsy like rifles. It was sugested one time, to alow "walking" with the hand guns in iron sight for example.
Also, another thing is as well, that you see with the animation, where the shoter holds them in both hands, but in iron sight you see them only used by one hand. It always was a bit disturbing.

Agreed 100%. I was always irritated on how slow it takes to IS on pistol, and how slow you walk with it.

[Nebfer]

well one thing that would help the tanks is improveing the armor layout.

as it is right now the armor is a simple four sided layout.

example

T-34 M41 (the version that is ingame) has the falowing armor sceem (it shairs the armor values with the T-34/85. wich would be fine for the Hull but not the turret.)

Front 11
Side 6
Rear 5

As far as I know there is no sepret hull or turret values just a frontal and the sideds..

in reality the armor (taking slope into acount) should be like this.
Turret
Front:5.2 (rounded- it varrys on where you hit it.)
Side:6
Rear:6
Mantlet:5.2 (rounded- it varrys on where you hit it.)

Upper Hull (this would be the parts above the tracks)
Front:5.2
Side:5.9
Rear:6
Deck:2

Lower Hull (below the tracks)
Front:5.6
Side:4.5
Rear:6.4
Belly plate:2

[Cuddles]

The weird thing about some handguns is that the ironsight isnt centerd even if you arent moving. the same problem was in the mod to.

[[CiA]Stiletto]

BOLT HOLD OPENS GRAAAGH

It drives me positively batty on the SVT40 (because I use it so much in game).

Oh, and cocking sleeves. OMFG. The things magically come back (meaning recocked) after firing. It makes it impossible to tell with a glance to the gun whether you've fired or not.

Other rifle glitches:
-When manually loading a sniper rifle partway through the magazine, opening the action doesn't eject the loaded cartridge.
-When cycling after your last round, it still displays a round in the magazine, waiting to be fed in.
-Sometimes you have to bolt before you can reload.
-K98's follower blocks the bolt in real life, I think, thus functioning as a bolt hold-open.

[Zhukov]

first off I want to say I love RO but the next things I write are not ment to bash the game but just to express a few suggestions and perhaps to vent a bit.

things that bother me:

Tank guns- all of them seem to be penetrating things at ranges they should not
for example the Panzer f2's gun can kill a t-34 at even long ranges when in reality I think it had to be (the T-34) within 100 yards in order for penetration to be even possiable with AP ammuntion. but at the same time they lack power for example a direct hit of a long barrel 75 or 85 from a range they could penetrate the peticular tank in question should kill in 1 shot unless angled

Armor- Heavy tanks seem to be lacking a bit of armor especially the Js2

Deflection is a bit overmodeled- example t34 can deflect anything if angled properly

Tanks are overgeneralized- ex. 1 T-3476 model there were several versions which improved the turret which would mean faster realod times and armor, 1 Panzer III backbone of german armor until 1944, 1 verison of the Kv-1.....

few tanks in game- we got the barebones of what was in service on the eastern front
The battle of Kursk - we should have something from 1943 it was the turning point of the war for the Germans

a few good things

- Great looking tank models and skins
- Excellant maps
- The few tanks in game were a good few to put in
- Nearly flawless infantry game play
- Most historically correct game I have experienced so far

[Ranari]

Amor modeling of the tanks doesn't really bother me too much. Although I do think angling is overdone in the game, the fact that it's there and you can work with it does add another element to the game that makes it interesting. In reality, most tanks late in the war had the capability of one-shotting each other at 500m or less (and in some cases, 1000m or more depending on the tank). If that were the case in game, then tank combat in RO would be more about who fired the first shot, which really doesn't make it very fun.

Angling also gives the driver added responsibility besides MGing if you're working with a 2-person tank crew.

But overall, I'd say RO tank combat is pretty awesome. Both the German and Russian armor has its advantage/disadvantages. Most of the advantages are in favor of the Russian tanks (higher mobility, easier angling, solid weapon performance), but once you grasp the German advantages (better optics, finer turrent movement, superior MG position), they can be just as wicked on the battlefield in the hands of an experienced crew. The only quirk I've notice is that the Tiger's gun doesn't seem to reflect its accurate penetration performance. Maybe I have skewed knowledge of what it's supposed to be, but I'd imagine it's very similar, if not slightly better than the Panther's 75mm based off what I've read. Regardless, the Tiger's 88, since the Tiger is more prevalent in game than the Panther, feels more tuned for balance than it is accurately represented. Still, the Tiger is easily the most powerful tank in the game once you realize how to use it.

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

first off I want to say I love RO but the next things I write are not ment to bash the game but just to express a few suggestions and perhaps to vent a bit.

things that bother me:

Tank guns- all of them seem to be penetrating things at ranges they should not
for example the Panzer f2's gun can kill a t-34 at even long ranges when in reality I think it had to be (the T-34) within 100 yards in order for penetration to be even possiable with AP ammuntion. but at the same time they lack power for example a direct hit of a long barrel 75 or 85 from a range they could penetrate the peticular tank in question should kill in 1 shot unless angled

Armor- Heavy tanks seem to be lacking a bit of armor especially the Js2

Deflection is a bit overmodeled- example t34 can deflect anything if angled properly

Tanks are overgeneralized- ex. 1 T-3476 model there were several versions which improved the turret which would mean faster realod times and armor, 1 Panzer III backbone of german armor until 1944, 1 verison of the Kv-1.....

few tanks in game- we got the barebones of what was in service on the eastern front
The battle of Kursk - we should have something from 1943 it was the turning point of the war for the Germans

Not sure what you mean? Maybe you mix the tanks.

The german tank in game that should not really penetrate the soviet tanks on distance, is the Panzer III + IV with short barrel (as far i know, Panzer III has loaded some rare amunition), but the Panzer F2, was capable to penetrate the T34/76 up to at least 800m from near any angle, even Guderian mentioned that NO fight against the T34 should be considered, without the new guned tanks, cause most other german tanks lacked in the possibilty to penetrate the T34/76.

The IS2 armor, is so far, working a bit "strange", you can penetrate it frontal, without problems which is ok, but as soon the tank is angled, you will not be able to do anything. I can rember the last fight on arad, where they killed my chains, the tank was red, but they still fired more then 40 Ap rounds on us, i keeped shoting the enemy from south field, till even all me HE shells have been wasted, later they just ignored my position and i have been killed by tank hunting soldiers ... i mean ... thats ridicoulous. I never read about the IS2 to be THAT effective ... at the moment you feel in it sometimes a bit like using a russian version of the Tiger II or something

Originally Posted by Nebfer

well one thing that would help the tanks is improveing the armor layout.

as it is right now the armor is a simple four sided layout.

example

T-34 M41 (the version that is ingame) has the falowing armor sceem (it shairs the armor values with the T-34/85. wich would be fine for the Hull but not the turret.)

Front 11
Side 6
Rear 5

As far as I know there is no sepret hull or turret values just a frontal and the sideds..

in reality the armor (taking slope into acount) should be like this.
Turret
Front:5.2 (rounded- it varrys on where you hit it.)
Side:6
Rear:6
Mantlet:5.2 (rounded- it varrys on where you hit it.)

Upper Hull (this would be the parts above the tracks)
Front:5.2
Side:5.9
Rear:6
Deck:2

Lower Hull (below the tracks)
Front:5.6
Side:4.5
Rear:6.4
Belly plate:2

can you pleas tell me the values for the Tiger? cause i heared its the only tank in game, where turret AND hull are modeled separately. I just would like to know, if that is true.

[Zhukov]

Yes, Im sorry for that typo I ment the Panzer F1 not F2.
German Apcr esepcially on the Panzer III was not very rare most German tanks frequently had some mix of APCR ammuntion even the Tiger I and II carried APCR. APCR was very rare for the Soviets until 1944.
A small correction realistically the Panzer IV F2 (early G) could easily penetrate the T-34 until 2000 meters
as seen below: for the 75mm KwK 40 L/43 at 30 degrees.

Panzergranate 39 (AP)

100m:98mm
500m:91mm
1000m:82mm
1500m:72mm
2000m: 63mm

The Panzer III we have in game has a longer up gunned 5.cm gun
which could effectively (and did) destroy T-34's (a bit under 1000 meters) the only problem was the 5cm round had a tendency to deflect if not fired from a perpendicular angle as observed by both Soviet and German tank crew.
heres the table: for the 50mm KwK 39 L/60 at 30 degrees.

Panzergranate 39 (AP)

100: 67mm
500:57mm
1000:44mm

Panzergranate 40 (APCR)

100m 138mm
500m 72mm

[Sgt._Geist]

What would be nice is the implementing of a shotgun, for those cqc battle...

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Sgt._Geist

What would be nice is the implementing of a shotgun, for those cqc battle...

Uh, no.