PPSh videos

[Sasha_Suvorov]

For all you Russophiles out there, here's a link to some clips of PPSh's in action:

http://www.ppsh41.com/mpg.html

The main page, ppsh41.com, has pretty much a treasure trove of info about the weapon.

(and be sure to check out the bent-barrel version!)

[mbrooksay]

Imagine if the PPSH in RO had realistic recoil... the carnage....

[Phoenix-D]

Most of these have been posted before...and I STILL want to see their shot patterns.

[GonzoX]

Originally Posted by Phoenix-D

Most of these have been posted before...and I STILL want to see their shot patterns.

Good Call.

Recoil was not really a problem in real life like it is in ROOST. Especially with the SMGs.

And as you insinuated, SMGs tend to have a large shot pattern because of their short barrels and because they fire from an open bolt.

I wish that TWI would swap one for the other to make the game more realistic.

IOW, I would like to see TWI kill the fake uber recoil on the SMGs and model their spray and pray shot pattern instead.

This way the weapon would mimic the real WWII guns more accurately without becoming gameplay breaking uber weapons for newbs.

Somebody posted that same link a while back and I got into an argument with this kid that kept insisting that those PPSHs were 22cal. Yeah Right!
No such thing. But like a typical teenager, they know everything and can't possibley be wrong.

[Quietus]

They need to give the PPSH box mags instead of the drums, that way they can reduce some of the insane recoil and not have people cry about 71 rounds of fury coming down on them.

[IconoclastDX]

WTH?! curved barrel? Does that work? Whats the exit velocity? 100 fps?

[Bone saw]

Thx for the link, nice videos(damn, it's raining shells ) and the article about the Soumi SMG was quite interesting.

[Plaid13]

If they made the ppsh realistic it would be the best smg in the game by far. We cant have that people would cry its overpowered. Even though it was a very powerful gun in the war. People say they want realism but if it was realistic they would cry. The ppsh has a longer barral and a more powerful round less recoil and a higher rate of fire then any other smg in the game and it has selective fire. so it would be as good and better at some stuff when compaired to the stg only lacking in the long range when compaired to it. The only downfalls of the real ppsh was it was longer then the other smgs so a little harder to use in tight spots and they liked to go off accedently when dropped on a hard surface. nothin like shooting yourself in the knee because you dropped your gun. But... it wont ever be made realistic in the game because they dont have a real gun like it to shoot and have no idea how good it really was. So they just base it off the numbers found in books.

[Drude]

first impression: no recoil.

[Fu. Svedberg]

Without seing the grouping on the target, the PPSh on those videos it looks like it haves the same recoil as the AK-47 with 75 round drum

[BeserkWraithlor]

PPSH has little recoil. Maybe we should reduce the recoil, then reduce accuracy for the gun, so that 71 rounds of hell woudn't kill everybody in medium or long range.

[GonzoX]

Originally Posted by BeserkWraithlor

PPSH has little recoil. Maybe we should reduce the recoil, then reduce accuracy for the gun, so that 71 rounds of hell woudn't kill everybody in medium or long range.

Exactly. People keep forgetting that SMGs fire a pistol cartridge.

***A "Pistol" cartrige.***

Heck, My Tokarev pistol fires the same 7.62x25mm Ammo and it does not have that much recoil.

Now take that same round and fire it from a much heavier carbine with a 20lbs drum mag hanging under it and a barrel that is five times longer than my Tokarev pistol and you can guess that the recoil would be a non-issue.

[D3terioNation]

I think a good fix would be to reduce recoil, but seriously lower its damage or stopping power over range, so it would not be used as an mg like most people fear!

[BuddyLee]

Originally Posted by Quietus

They need to give the PPSH box mags instead of the drums, that way they can reduce some of the insane recoil and not have people cry about 71 rounds of fury coming down on them.

Larger heavier drums would actually reduce recoil.

The Tokarev cartridge penetrates modern USGI combat helmets, and bullet-proof vests. that can't be said of .357 Magnum or .45 auto.

[Rss]

From hell's heart, USSR shoots at thee. For hate's sake, Soviet man spits his last breath at thee.

[D3terioNation]

riiiiiiiight

[Plaid13]

This is exactly what i mean everyones saying reduce recoil and reduce power or add bulletspread... basicly nerf the gun and it dosnt need it it needs to have less recoil and thats it. These guns may not be as accurate as rifles but... they will be accurate out to 100 yards or so. Still totaly leathal at that range. Now how often do you shoot at targets at 100 yards or more in the game unless you have a sniper? Before everyones says oh i do that all the time go out to a football field and stand at one end and have a friend stand at the other end and look just how far away they are. Any smg in the game is accurate enough to be leathal at that range with a well aimed shot. The ppsh was known to have a longer effective range then any other smg used in the war. The only things that need to be changed about it to make it realistic is reduce the recoil and add a selective fire switch to most of them. Not all ppsh had selective fire but most used in the war did. Only at the end of production did they stop adding the selective fire. Then the change that should be done to all guns. making the muzzle flash last less time. Should be a very fast flash Shouldnt totaly blind you the way it does with the ppsh when you spray it. Its too easy to loose track of your target because of the muzzle flash. While the size of the muzzle flash does seem right on most guns and even too small on some of the rifles it just shouldnt last as many frames as it does.

[Quietus]

Originally Posted by BuddyLee

Larger heavier drums would actually reduce recoil.

The Tokarev cartridge penetrates modern USGI combat helmets, and bullet-proof vests. that can't be said of .357 Magnum or .45 auto.

I know that but since it's recoil is so insane currently, it's recoil could still be kicked down from it's current levels box mag or not. What I'm saying is even if it had the box mag currently, it's current recoil levels would be excessive even with a box mag.

[{YBBS}Sage]

Originally Posted by D3terioNation

I think a good fix would be to reduce recoil, but seriously lower its damage or stopping power over range, so it would not be used as an mg like most people fear!

After buying a pistol chambered in 7.62x25, and doing some unscientific testing side by side with a 9mm and .45, I've got to say I think this "little" caliber can do some serious damage. The wound channel is actually going to be simliar-sized just because of the added velocity. I wouldn't lower the stopping power one bit. It already can take five or more hits from a SMG to kill you.

A few minutes ago, I pulled a bullet out of a round of surplus Tokarev, and needed somewhere handy to pour the powder. I poured it into a spent .45 ACP case, and was shocked to see that it's almost as much as I'd have expected to find if I'd pulled the bullet on the .45! I don't have any 9mm brass, but I think it might actually be more powder than you'd find in one.

@ Gonzo: 72 rounds of TT don't weigh 20 lbs. 100 rounds of 7.62x54R heavy ball weigh about 10 lbs (I recently went backpacking with my guns...), I'd put the Tokarev at about 5 lbs/72. Scratch that. I just carried a box of 72 out to the scale. I'd put it at more like 2-2 1/2 lbs.

Personally, I think the recoil should have a LOT less muzzle-climb (which is something practically non-existant in every shoulder arm I've ever fired), and a lot more jumping around.

[GonzoX]

I don't actually know how much a PPSH weighs. Exact weight is not important. I just wanted to make my point that the SMGs in the game should have very little reoil and very little muzzle climb just like the real thing. Mostly due to the weight and mass of the SMG vs Pistol.

The Video links that somebody posted speaks volumes and they don't lie.
We all know that the SMGs are fudged, but we believe TWI did this to keep the SMG from becoming a noobs uber weapon and gamplay killer. Is that right TWI?

On the 45, you really can't compare the Tokarev round to that. 45cal is a man stopper. Tokarev round over-penetrates. They are the proverbial apple and orange. The 45 transfers all it's energy to the target and mangles the flesh. The 7.62x25 makes a nice little hole and goes right through.

If I were shooting at a skinny guy I would use the 45. With a fat man as a target I would use the Tokarev round. Shot placement is more important with the smaller cal though mind you.

This kind of debate can go on and on so I will stay on topic and say again that TWI can fix the SMG to make both the realism and gameplay camps happy. They key IMHO is to simulate spray and pray without resorting to an SMG that bounces around like it's hangining off of a bungie chord.

As it is now, the bungie chord SMG just doesn't feel right and I for one would like to see it fixed.