PTRD Soldat

[Kipper]

I forget where, but I've read that PTRD crews were issued two PTRDs and two PPSHs or two Mosins and quite a bit of ammunition. Why not replace the TT33 for the PTRD soldat and give him the option of either a PTRD or PTRS and an accompanying PPSH or Mosin? Also, an increased ammo load would by lovely. It'd also be a nice addition to allow a AT soldier to abandon his weapon while deployed, albeit briefly, to take out the PPSH/Mosin to engage the enemy that may be sneaking up on him. I only suggest this because we honestly can't have a AT rifle crew.

[piller]

Eh, I think teamwork could supply a PTRD person with covering fire.

I do like the idea of being able to leave a deployed gun.

[Kipper]

Unfortunately, that doesn't always work out. In fact, it's sadly the exception to the rule. Most often, I end up teamed up with other PTRD fellows. Just think Arad and being in the North Village. The Germans have MP-40s with their AT weaponry, they easily take out PTRD guys.

[sumway]

i like your idea of being able to leave the weapon whilst you do other things

[FatPartizan]

In a reality was so:
№1 Shooter . PTRD + TT or Nagant .
№2 Loader . Forty cartridges for PTRD + rifle or the PPSh.
For two: anti-tank grenade - four . F1 grenades .

[Avenger]

I don't like this idea because I think it would unbalance the classes.

Think about it:
Rifleman gets a rifle and grenades.
Assault trooper gets a PPSh and grenades.
Anti-tank guy gets a PTRD, grenades, AND his choice of a pistol, submachinegun, or rifle.

It's not fair.

We did have a discussion awhile back about being able to carry two primary weapons, but it was met with mostly scorn from the community. I personally thought it was a good idea, provided some good sense was used in how it was implemented. However, everyone in that thread agreed that being able to carry a second weapon with big guns such as the PTRD and MG42 was silly.

[Kipper]

How does that unbalance the classes? The German equivalent gets three Panzerfausts, two grenades and his choice of a rifle or SMG. Of course, the PTRD soldat will get maybe 20-40 14.7mm rounds and one extra drum of PPSh ammo. The SMG/Rifle is simply for self defense.

[Sichartshofen]

The German tank hunters only get 3 shots. Russians get up to 19. The amount of weapons you can carry now does not need to be made even more ridiculous.

[Kipper]

The point is to simulate the PTRD team. Obviously, you can't force people to work in pairs in game so you have to take the team and combine them into a single person. There needs to be a compromise though, so we're not going to be overloading the PTRD soldiers.

Three shots vs. nineteen is a terrible position to hold. THe Panzerfaust will knock out any tank in one shot when used properly. The PTRD can do one shot at close range on early war tanks at best. On the later war maps, you need every single on of those rounds to survive. So, your AT weapon is not that effective and neither is your personal weapon. The German class has you beat easily on both counts.

[Eater1]

From a balance point of view, the Soviets currently suffer in the infantry department on CA maps because the AT soldier is essentially useless against infantry. This is why Germans will very often control the villages on Arad, because their AT soldiers double up as very effective infantry. I'm not sure what a good solution is - the two AT soldiers are not equal, but they are not terribly unbalanced either. As has been posted already, there is nothing unrealistic about giving the Soviet AT soldier another weapon, as this did actually happen (wheras running around with three panzerfausts did not, but that's another discussion). Maybe a better solution is to implement a German AT soldier armed with a Panzerschrek (sp?), and make the Panzerfaust an alternative to grenades for most soldiers (with AT grenades available to the Soviets). Then the AT classes would not be so unbalanced anymore against each other (assuming they both also get a large 'secondary' weapon like a rifle). To balance them against other classes, just remove their grenades. The classes are not particularly equal right now anyway (what makes assault trooper weaker than SMG trooper on most maps? or sniper vs. rifleman?).

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by Kipper

How does that unbalance the classes?

*sigh*

Allow me to repeat myself:

Rifleman gets a rifle and grenades.
Assault trooper gets a PPSh and grenades.
Anti-tank guy gets a PTRD, grenades, AND his choice of a pistol, submachinegun, or rifle.

That doesn't sound unbalanced to you?

Admittedly, the German anti-tank guy is already way overpowered, and that needs to be fixed as well. The definition of teamwork is that every team member plays their own unique role. As it is right now certain classes are way more deadly than others. That means that even great players get stuck with second-rate classes that don't allow them to contribute as much as they could, just because they connected to the server after the game started.

[piller]

keep in mind that the PTRD is useful against infantry aswell

[Roman Elite]

Originally Posted by piller

keep in mind that the PTRD is useful against infantry aswell

Extremely useful. It's practically a 100% accurate within moderate ranges. I can easily shoot heads off with it...
It can be used as a anti infantry gun from long range and the TT sidearm is probaly the best pistol in the game IMO. Leave it the way it is!

[Zell]

Yes, but what if more than one enemy are coming for you? Then you're screwed... The reload time on that bad boy guarantees death if you miss or have anyone left alive nearby.

[piller]

If you miss you duck for cover and reload behind that

[Eater1]

Really, I think it's more an issue of realism - realistically, German "anti-tank soldiers" did not carry three Panzerfausts (these were distributed more or less to all of the other soldiers), and Soviet "anti-tank soldiers" didn't carry a pistol for a sidearm. Which is why I believe that giving the Soviet AT better anti-infantry capability and the German AT more shots against armor (using a Panzerschreck when available, or maybe an anti-tank rifle in the early war) would be the right way to go.
Part of the challenge is that the two nations had very different approaches to man-portable AT. The Soviet Union was really the only country to really aggressively issue AT rifles in the belief that enough big guns would ultimately do a better job downing a tank than a bunch of guys sneaking up on it with short-range explosives (and the PF is still relatively short range if you want to have any accuracy and are not carrying three of them). Germany, on the other hand, was the only nation to hand out shaped charges to any man who could hold one. So they're different, and so difficult to balance.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Eater1

Maybe a better solution is to implement a German AT soldier armed with a Panzerschrek (sp?), and make the Panzerfaust an alternative to grenades for most soldiers (with AT grenades available to the Soviets).

That, IMO, would be the best solution. After all, the PF wasn't a weapon given soley to tank hunters but rather was used by anyone who could aim and fire it.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Originally Posted by piller

keep in mind that the PTRD is useful against infantry aswell

Not really, considering AT Germans can also have a K98. I've chosen that a few times while in Arad and it just makes the Russkies easier to be picked off while they are deployed, or even when running. The only problem for a rifleman AT is the PPSHs when up close, but that is what the faust is for.

[Reise]

Originally Posted by Zell

Yes, but what if more than one enemy are coming for you? Then you're screwed... The reload time on that bad boy guarantees death if you miss or have anyone left alive nearby.

Heh well I think if a PTRD anti-tank unit is killing infantry he isn't really doing what his class is meant to do.

Originally Posted by Sichartshofen

The German tank hunters only get 3 shots. Russians get up to 19. The amount of weapons you can carry now does not need to be made even more ridiculous.

But the Soviet antitank rifle can kill a Panzer IV F1or F2 as well as the Panzer III frontally in one shot from a long distance. Play Berezina or Arad it gets very annoying.The best part about the AT-rifle is that in real life the Panzer IV is invulnerable to it except in the back.It takes alot of side shots to kill a PanzerIII.Everything else should be invulnerable to the PTRD and every anti tank rifle loses power very quickly so long range shots wouldnt penetrate.
If they were gonna make the Soviet at-rifle stronger they should have made it "realistically strong" so it takes fewer shots to the rear/side of the Panzer IV/III.
The Panzerfaust is a closer range weapon and is mostly a one shot weapon with most tanks like the IS-2 (which has more armor than the T-34) yet when fired at a T-34 it takes 2 Panzerfausts to subdue it even though the current Panzerfaust in game should penetrate 200mm of armor.It strikes me as odd that the "common " German tanks can be subdued by 1 well placed shot of a PTRD in the front and the most common Soviet tanks T-34/76 and the 85 required 2 Panzerfaust hits to subdue even when more armored tanks like the IS-2 only need 1.

My solution would be to give points for disabling tanks and giving realistic loadouts to every class.-IM not sure who I think it was the German combat engineer usually deployed with 6 grenades which were often tyied together as an at- grenade.For balance and Game play Id make the Panzerfaust only penetrate enemy tanks at 90 degree angles perhaps reduce their load out. The AT-rifle should only work only on thier respected areas on German tanks.

That, IMO, would be the best solution. After all, the PF wasn't a weapon given soley to tank hunters but rather was used by anyone who could aim and fire it.

Yes, it was. Civilians used it as well as Hitler youth in the closing days of WW2.