Shotguns in games

[Byte Me]

Why is it that shotguns in games set in the future are all pump operated or semi-automatic with tubular magazines? Half-Life 1 & 2, Doom 1-3, Halo 1 & 2, Counter-Strike (1.6, CZ, or Source), and FEAR are the most recent and noteworthy offenders. This also extends to mods too, Natural Selection (HL 1 mod) to name a biggy. Full auto and magazine fed shotguns exist today, in the future I see them as the only viable way to keep that category of weapons alive. By then there will be better recoil reduction methods and better spread patterns (could be done with new types of chokes, through a redesign of ammo, or something completetly different) to deal with the shotguns two main drawbacks, short range and high recoil (well with 12 gauge at least, but I only see shotguns getting more powerful as time goes by).

And why in future/modern day games, the shotgun category have the least amount of weapons in them? I site the exampes above again, only CS has two shotguns, all the rest have one (though The Specialists, another HL 1 mod, has five, but thats an exception to the rule though).

Why is this? Would they be to powerful and unbalance the game? So many pellets fired at once creates to much lag? Modern/future body armor (represented in most of the games previously mentioned) too resistant to make it a viable weapon? Or would they simply be labeled "noob cannons" because of their ease of use by not requiring as much aiming "skills" and simply not be used for fear of reprisal and lack of respect from players on a server (this happens in CS, any version, with the "XM1014" semi-auto shotgun, despite the fact its not even half-way decent beyond knife range)?

So what do you, the gamers, think? I think its time for a change.

[Capt.Marion]

err... the pump and semi-auto ones are more widely used, and are the cheapest, so you'd find them used by police departments and terror/criminal organizations alike. Waht I'd like to see is maybe also some slug guns for opening doors and equally large holes in enemies. It's against the Geneva convention to use slugs on infantry, but do criminals and terrorists really care?

[Byte Me]

Originally Posted by Capt.Marion

err... the pump and semi-auto ones are more widely used, and are the cheapest, so you'd find them used by police departments and terror/criminal organizations alike.

Yes I probably should have just left taken "modern day" out of my first question (infact I will do just that) because today they are less prevelant. But in the future... seriously doubt it.

[Comrade Wasabi]

BF2 has a variety of shotguns. M11-87 (pump) Pancor Jackhammer (semi auto, drum fed) S12K (Russian design, magazine fed semi auto) DAO-12 Striker (drum fed semi auto) and NOR982 pump.

[Xendance]

Shotguns should be banned from some games *cough* cod 2 *cough*

[Pycckuu]

I think the reason you don't see magazine-fed shotguns in most retail games is the weapon's uniqueness. If you have a shotgun that looks like an AK (thinking of saiga here), behaves like an AK (reloading and all that), and the only difference is what they fire, the weapons would be very boring. The other thing is, like you said, game ballance. A weapon as powerful as a shotgun must have some sort of a drawback, like slow reload.

[Byte Me]

Comrade Wasabi
BF2 has a variety of shotguns. M11-87 (pump) Pancor Jackhammer (semi auto, drum fed) S12K (Russian design, magazine fed semi auto) DAO-12 Striker (drum fed semi auto) and NOR982 pump.

Well thats more of an exception to the rule, I'm sure you will find more games than I have listed which have much less when compared to the other weapon classes in it.

Xendance
Shotguns should be banned from some games *cough* cod 2 *cough*

This is why I am refering to modern and futuristic games only. Shotguns havn't changed as much since its military inception as rifles and machine guns have. Infact some very old designs are still used today, like the Ithaca 37 which has a feature that most modern shotguns still don't have today (bottom ejection, spent shells come out of the same hole that is used to load it).

Pycckuu
I think the reason you don't see magazine-fed shotguns in most retail games is the weapon's uniqueness. If you have a shotgun that looks like an AK (thinking of saiga here), behaves like an AK (reloading and all that), and the only difference is what they fire, the weapons would be very boring.

Well the AK design has been made into a series of weapons including LMG's, sniper rifles, and SMG's along with assault rifles and shotguns. So try this for uniqueness and this for slow reload time. There are also magazine fed pump and semi automatic shotguns as well (I know you already said the Saiga 12k but that is so well known so I included the link to a lesser known semi auto shotgun or at least one that is not used as much in games).

The other thing is, like you said, game ballance. A weapon as powerful as a shotgun must have some sort of a drawback, like slow reload.

Well I agree with modern day games like CS you can't just slap in a USAS-12 or a AA-12 without worrying about balance. But with futuristic games, the sky's the limit IMO.

[Moz]

INF does shotguns very well, if there wasn't a million files to download I'd still play it

[Goetz]

Yeah but semi-auto shotguns are just about as far as you can go unless you change the cartridge used. So I figure semi-auto is just about as good as it'll get until they design new ammo usage. Also the Jackhammer is automatic, not semi-auto. It fires at 240 RPM according to world.guns.ru which seems to be a reliable source. So I figure the Saiga is about as good as shotguns can get. Automatic doesn't really seem like it would be very useful for a shotgun considering recoil. I would imagine semi-auto is sufficient enough. I think a futuristic shotgun would be something like a futuristic looking magazine-fed semi-automatic gas-operated shotgun... wow that's a lot of adjectives lol.

[Fu. Svedberg]

Hey the double barreled shotgun in Doom 2 isn't semi auto pump action. If you look closley you see the animation for your avatar removing the spent cartriges and replacing them with new.

[Spade]

It's called "coolness" factor.

Animations for pump action look hell-of-lot "cooler" than animations for AR, that's why most games prefer pump action shotguns over others. And since we're on subject; these are games that try to appeal for as wide an audience as possible therefore realism hasn't got much to play in them.

It's bit like in the movies, in how many you see classic 2 barrelled used as opposed to pump action one?

[SgtH3nry3]

Originally Posted by Xendance

Shotguns should be banned from some games *cough* cod 2 *cough*

Yeah, what does a ancient shotgun mostly used in WW1 and the Pacific theatre do in Europe? >_>

[Oldih]

Yeah, what does a ancient shotgun mostly used in WW1 and the Pacific theatre do in Europe? >_>

Well H&D2 is a bad game because there is a hunting shotgun in one shack in one of the Czech missions

(courtesy of few random RO players in one random server)

[Piron]

The only reasons why bullets are still used in futuristic games is simple: bullets > lasers gameplay wise.
Its cooler to load a new magazine instead of a power cell, its nicer to hear 'dadadadada' instead of 'pfieuw pfieuw',...
And shotguns are one of my favorites, simply because I like my combat close, personal and bloody.

[Fu. Svedberg]

Originally Posted by Piron

The only reasons why bullets are still used in futuristic games is simple: bullets > lasers gameplay wise.
Its cooler to load a new magazine instead of a power cell, its nicer to hear 'dadadadada' instead of 'pfieuw pfieuw',...

Which brings us to another important question:

Why do lasers sound "pfieuw pfieuw" in computer games and movies. At uni I have been close to a laser that was strong enough to burn trough a humans skin and it didn't sound anything at all (except for the cooling fans, but they give more of a constant humming noise like a air cooled computer (no surprise since the fans are the same as in an computer))?

[spraduke]

plus you would never see a laser "fly" to a target. As soon as the trigger was pulled it would be at the target. The "laser" beams you see in starwars etc would have to be something like ion beams or similar. (omg stop me doing a physcis degree now!!)

[Grobut]

I say its a matter of "cool factor" and balance, an old pumper with a tube looks cool, even the animations, whereas a mag-fed semi-auto would look just like all the others, and be a potential balance nightmare.

But then, there is a reason why they are still with us, its a good and reliable design, that will load and fire any shell you feed it (aslong as its the same gauge), whereas a mag-feeder would be limited by shells that match the mag, and semi-auto's have had problems cycling with low-recoil shells, such as breach-loads.



The good old Bolt-action is still with us too, you cant beat that reliabillity and accuracy, and at an affordable price too, and i bet thease designs will still be with us in the future.

So it doesen't bother me, what does bother me is the way most games nerf shotguns, and turn them into weapons that you have to use like a bayonet (unless you are allmost pressing the muzzle against the baddie, it wont do any serious damage), and the way overdone spread, its a 12ga combat shotgun, not a sawnoff 28ga loaded with birdshot for pete's sake.

[Wiglaf]

Soldiers of Fortune had Usas12


iirc0 it rawked in multi.

For the gib factor, try F.E.A.R it's free.

[Murphy]

Shotguns in SoF2 ****ed because you couldn´t shoot much farther than 3 or 4 meters. The damage after that distance wasn´t reduced to a rediculously low amount due to rediculously high "spread" but it was zero.
It rocked up close - but you had to be that up close that a knife would´ve done the same job (slightly exaggerating).


Why is it that shotguns spread so much in video games?

And what is "plasma" ? I always though it was a liquid of some sorts that can be very hot and still be fluid. If that´s true, are plasma rifles little more than Super-Soakers like the ones you use in wet-t-shirt-contests, just with hot "plasma", or am I completely wrong here?

[Fu. Svedberg]

The physical definition of plasma is ionised gas. In most cases it needs to be very hot (atleast a couple of thousand degrees Kelvin and in many cases many million degrees).

Since plasma has a electric charge it can be held/formed/accelerated by electromagnetic fields.