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RO2 Any ideeas to make the ranking better and balanced?

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Bunny monster

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Jul 10, 2014
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#1
The current ranking system is just for grinding and discourages tactical play, I was thinking on making the ranking system, more towards something like skyrim. Where when you choose a class you have only some parts that can be leveled up and remove all the need of leveling 99 levels so that everyone needs to grind to be better. It is true that if you have profficiency in firing a gun you do a better job, but why not implement it something as like:

You have an MG guy. You can level him in: Ammo, deployment speed, and how easy he suppresses, or maybe a feature not exploited yet camo.

Or as like an assault soldier, which doesn't need so many bullets but he needs grenades and to run fast and doesn't need so much camo. Things can be modified to make it better to level up and encourage team play.

1:Remove leveling for killing bots because this encourages farming.
2:Give experience for the same guns: by this I mean why do you need separate xp for the anti tank rifles which are the same or for snipers and simple bolt action rifles, which in practice are the same guns. So there aren't so different after all.
3:Reward xp only if you teamplay and capture objectives: as like 10.000 xp for capturing that objective with your team mates or deffending it.

Rank should be only more cometically oriented not that much in making the soldier better, so that the game would be more balanced. Why not make it as like have the same level of xp for every soldier on practice servers to level up, IN TEAMPLAY NOT GRINDING. And when you get into ladder, you get separate xp system that is defined by the style you play and is evolved for the branch you want to follow, speed of movement, reloading, or accuracy with weapons, or how well you hide or camouflage yourself.
 
#2
Bunny monster said:
Things can be modified to make it better to level up and encourage team play.
Click to expand...

Leveling weapons in any way only encourages individual play. Rewarding individuals for their own actions splits their focus away from the team.

Rewarding individuals based solely on team results sounds like it would work, but in itself becomes meaningless, no more significant than hours played. For example, you could only give everyone on the winning team points. You'd think this would make people even better team players and they'd do their best to win right? Nah, it's too disconnected from action/reward, people wouldn't pay that much attention to it. You'd get those points at the same rate regardless, why sweat it? Or, they'd continually team switch to the winning side to grind. Same thing with cap points, yeah most people know that's a quicker way to level up rank, but most still focus on leveling weapons.

If you want to encourage teamplay, remove any distractions (like leveling) and reward teamplay itself. Make it easier to work together as a squad, to stay alive and succeed. Make it harder to stay alive as a lone wolf. The game right now is mostly 32 one on one shoot outs, you can do your own thing and top the scoreboard. If squads stuck together, you'd find yourself in a lot of 1v4, 1v5 and you'd get destroyed. You'd be rewarded by sticking with your squadmates, they'd keep you alive, heal you if you were wounded, etc.


1:Remove leveling for killing bots because this encourages farming.
Click to expand...

I'd go for that.
 
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#3
Bunny monster said:
The current ranking system is just for grinding and discourages tactical play, I was thinking on making the ranking system, more towards something like skyrim. Where when you choose a class you have only some parts that can be leveled up and remove all the need of leveling 99 levels so that everyone needs to grind to be better. It is true that if you have profficiency in firing a gun you do a better job, but why not implement it something as like:

You have an MG guy. You can level him in: Ammo, deployment speed, and how easy he suppresses, or maybe a feature not exploited yet camo.

Or as like an assault soldier, which doesn't need so many bullets but he needs grenades and to run fast and doesn't need so much camo. Things can be modified to make it better to level up and encourage team play.

1:Remove leveling for killing bots because this encourages farming.
2:Give experience for the same guns: by this I mean why do you need separate xp for the anti tank rifles which are the same or for snipers and simple bolt action rifles, which in practice are the same guns. So there aren't so different after all.
3:Reward xp only if you teamplay and capture objectives: as like 10.000 xp for capturing that objective with your team mates or deffending it.

Rank should be only more cometically oriented not that much in making the soldier better, so that the game would be more balanced. Why not make it as like have the same level of xp for every soldier on practice servers to level up, IN TEAMPLAY NOT GRINDING. And when you get into ladder, you get separate xp system that is defined by the style you play and is evolved for the branch you want to follow, speed of movement, reloading, or accuracy with weapons, or how well you hide or camouflage yourself.
Click to expand...

Honestly I like the leveling system in essence, really the fact that it provides a sense of achievement. The only problem with it is, like lugnut said, promotes non-teamplay. Honestly in my own opinion, they should scrap weapon XP for weapons, and use the honor levels & class level to determine what guns you unlock with what modifications. I disagree with the bolt rifles, as in my own opinion they are different. AT-Rifles, are a different story, they're the same gun re-named for each side. This would allow players to focus less on killing players, as it doesn't determine what upgrades you get, it would help you level up, but like both of you said, not as much as playing as a team player, capping objectives, etc. Maybe even class modifiers ie like the TL gets less experience for calling in arty and getting kills, than say someone who killed the same amount of people with a rifle. The camo is existent in Rising Storm to an extent, but yes, it's not customizable.
 
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#4
I was thinking for the leveling system, to have something that promotes balance. As like, instead of having to level up your class and have for all classes the same abilities to unlock, fast reload, aiming and things like that. I think they should make 2 types of server, one for leveling and to let people to discover the game and play with all upgrades and abilities regardless of newbie or pro.

The leveling should be approached differently, the problem is, that if you level up, you play much easier, weapons have less recoil, also if you unlock the C96 with auto firing, you instantly have a better advantage than most players out there. In my opinion, the system of designing the classes is broken, classes should be given some points to spend so that you can't choose the: Automatic rifle, with flamethrower, bazooka, anti tank grenade and artillery binocle. Make it as like you have some kind of point system for the class. Assault has 10 points, from these 10 points he can choose: Mp 40/PPSH, simple or upgraded, simple it would cost him 4, upg, 6. If you want a pistol it costs you 2 more points, but you can choose to have, 4 grenades which each one costs 1 point and with this system, you can make it a lot more restrictive to better weapons. So that you can't have the whole team of pro players with automatic C96 or scoped automatic SVT 40, the AVT.

Also the servers should be put according to rank, I don't think it is pretty fair, to have servers with players that have all 99 level vs guys that only reached level 10. They should have a minimal requirment for servers for people to level up. And because of this, people will try to farm. Don't promote this! Make it somehow to encourage teamplay, give points only for killing players.

I think the best way to give points and make it easier for people to make this game play as a whole team, would be to give points, ONLY, but ONLY, if you stay alive for the whole round, as like, if you die, more than 5 times, you don't get the experience, this ideea could be tackled but there should be a penalty for going all rambo on the enemy.

Also, remove the useless unrealistical upgrades:

G41 scoped, come on that upgrade is pointless you shoot better without that scope why do I need to grind 25 levels to get a good scope, when the russian SVT 40 scoped is much better and easier to use.

I don't know but the PPS 43 is kinda useless, it is very little difference between it and PPSH 41. The ppsh 41 is better and has a lot more ammo, so why? Why should I choose the PPS 43?

Also, the AVT 40. Come on guys, an automatic assault rifle? Really, why can't the scope be removed and replaced with a larger magazine to make it realistically.
 
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#6
Lemonater47 said:
Also the only written supply note of any AVTs anywhere near stalingrad was a shipment of 300 scoped AVTs.
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???
300 scoped AVTs were produced in 1943 by some special order (I dont know details), most probably after the Stalingrad battle. And the regular AVT production was started in a few time before Stalingrad battle, but in a lot higher numbers than 300.
qMwzX0SEkZQ.jpg


168 000 AVT-40 for only 1942.
Mednogorsk is in south part of USSR, so its reasonable to guess that some of the first AVT-40 came to Stalingrad. I also got a photo of german oficer in Stalingrad with, probably, captured AVT-40.

luxe-oborona-stalingrada-5.jpg
 
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#13
Make it somehow to encourage teamplay, give points only for killing players.
Click to expand...

would be to give points, ONLY, but ONLY, if you stay alive for the whole round
Click to expand...

This would guarantee anyone who gives a crap about leveling would be sitting far back in cover sniping. Which, considering this game is a timed rush into the cap, would present problems.
 
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#14
But what do you think about the ideea of getting the points for leveling up only if you stay alive long enough when playing as a team. As like if you survive the whole match without dieying you get +10.000 points, if you die once you get 9000 and so on. So that it would encourage people to play more deffensive.

Also give points only for team play, not for killing bots.
 
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#15
Same answer. Rewarding people for simply not dying will lead people to reduce the chance of dying. Those who want those points will sit back where it's safe and stay out of the caps.

Game design is about rewarding and making it easy for people to play the way you want and punishing and making it uncomfortable for those who don't.

Make communicating, coordinating and playing as a team easier and more fun than playing as an individual. RO2/RS got teamplay @ half right. Having a TL and SL's gets a structure in place, and they are essential to winning the match, but aside from using a SL as a mobile spawnpoint, it's really difficult to stay together and properly work as a squad. It's way more fun to play as a mob and attack/defend caps. You don't even need anyone to tell you where to go or where the enemy is, because you already know that, each map plays out the same. There's no reward either for staying with your squadmates, no one can heal you, drag you out of harms way or give you ammo. (except mgs)

You don't need points either to shape gameplay, play ARMA or PR and you quickly learn that if you don't work together and communicate, you will die and it'll be no fun. The fun is in keeping yourself and squadmates alive while you travel across the map.
 
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#16
Ok, but you can do make this work, by making people not want to die to play more tactically, also to not promote camping, You can't spawn at the first location because you enter beyond the combat line. So it could work to make people play better and promote teamplay.

Also to make the atack commands which the team leader gives you more visible, also make the communication much easier to use if you ask for ammo, cover, MG or things like that. Also it is very annoying to play with a friend Red orchestra in a party because you can't really tell him apart from the mass of players. I think there should be many things modified in the interface to see better, if you atack or issue a command, or spot someone at distance.
 
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#17
bunny monster, i will tell you one thing.
Tripwire had and still have all possibilities to update the game, including new content and improve the existing. They are not doing it not because they cant, but because they DONT WANT for some reason. I think thats because they dont want to change the game, keep it the way it is to keep all the players. For all time they added only 2 new weapons to the game, and they specially selected those 2 guns that would not change the game cardinally (that includes improving the game and fixing the problems). PPS-42 has ridiculously high recoil, even more than PPSh-41 and no stock untill lvl25 for some reason, which makes it totally useless weapon, that has no advantages against PPSh-41. Mg42 is basically MG34 with higher rate of fire, it is different from mg34 but not cardinally.
Instead of these 2 weapons TWI could add, for example, real german anti-tank weapon, instead of ridiculous captured PTRS with TF-2/WoT style balancing (higher penetration than THE SAME THING in soviet hands). It could be sturmpistole for example, with HEAT grenades that penetrate 80mm of armor. That would be perfect and different balance - soviets have far-shooting, but not so penetrating weapon; germans get a lot more penetrating weapon, but for shorter distance, with crappy ballistics. It would be even similar to ro1 panzerfaust vs PTRD.
But no, they decided to keep the game the same thing, with all its problems.
You were right that "ideas and suggestions" subforum is now basically useless, it doesnt make any sense because developer wont change anything in the game. Since the release the forum was filled with complaints and suggestions, twi didnt fix the problems that players really asked to fix, for a lot of times, why would twi do anything now? Although they changed the mg hipshooting recently, but still it was only one problem from MANY. Ideas and suggestions subforum would make a lot more sense, if it was for modders, not for developers.
 
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#18
Ideas and suggestions subforum would make a lot more sense, if it was for modders, not for developers.
Click to expand...

Yup.

TWI are not idiots, nor are they inexperienced gamers, they know how other games are designed, the suggestions that many have made over the years are not new ideas either, they come from other games that are successful or failures. As RO2 was in development, I'm sure there was much discussion as to what sort of gameplay they wanted and what features to include and leave out. Ramm stated in a thread years ago that RO2 was the game he wished RO had been, but they couldn't make at the time. So, yes, there are bugs and they ran out of time and money on some things, like tanks especially, but essentially, they are happy with the game as it is. The vast, vast majority of players are also happy with it, the numbers are pretty healthy considering it's age. Those who didn't like it were the minority and they've long since given up.

I'd say the only things we'll see from TWI in the future are whatever they have on the shelf that was very near completion years ago and discarded, just like the last patch. It would financially be stupid to spend significant resources on an old game, they will spend it on new ones.

I'd say the only point of suggestions would be if they are related to RO3 and who knows if community input matters at all.
 
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#20
Bunny monster said:
Just wondering, is anyone interested in repairing the game to make it enjoyable? I have many friends interested in help, but I was wondering, if we learn and start modding, will people still play it, is it worth it?
Click to expand...

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=92324

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=1427683#post1427683

http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/62.210.178.64:7797/



Here. We pretty much repaired the whole game, and i personally participated in development of this mod for severall years.
 
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