Debate about "spawn killing" IS IT OR IS IT NOT
- Thread starter General Sir Anthony C H M
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NOT in a sense that its illegal but I will swear at you and if I do the same (often on Kwajalein) I have no problems if people swear at me 
Its an asshole move
Its an asshole move
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I personally wouldn't say that is spawnkilling.
I mean if you think about it spawnkilling originated from titles like quake and unreal where you would litterarily stand in the area where people would appear right in front of you. And often such that their back faced towards you when they spawned so you could easily shoot them in the back, when they still had to get a clue of where the heck they were.
This is closer to spawn exit killing, which I personally consider a viable tactic. I think its up to level designers to restrict people from getting too close towards the spawn or killing people before they managed to get a sense of their surroundings.
People simply need to learn to A protect their spawn exits, and B if there is someone covering an exit don't run out like lemmings, throw a grenade or smoke from that initial wall and then shoot, or pick another exit and take you down. And if people don't like it they should probably ask someone to create a mutator to give people more seconds of invulnerability or a bigger area in which they are invulnerable.
Are some positions overpowered more than level designers would want, quite often yes. And different people have different ethics, so if its not a competitive game it might be good to sometimes retreat if you are doing well, and perhaps report a certain very good position to developers or a mapper.
But all in all I would say if you can do something without the usage of cheats its pretty much allowed. If you think you are using a bug (which is a gray area often) then just report it or ask someone of the devs if its a bug or intended behaviour.
I mean if you think about it spawnkilling originated from titles like quake and unreal where you would litterarily stand in the area where people would appear right in front of you. And often such that their back faced towards you when they spawned so you could easily shoot them in the back, when they still had to get a clue of where the heck they were.
This is closer to spawn exit killing, which I personally consider a viable tactic. I think its up to level designers to restrict people from getting too close towards the spawn or killing people before they managed to get a sense of their surroundings.
People simply need to learn to A protect their spawn exits, and B if there is someone covering an exit don't run out like lemmings, throw a grenade or smoke from that initial wall and then shoot, or pick another exit and take you down. And if people don't like it they should probably ask someone to create a mutator to give people more seconds of invulnerability or a bigger area in which they are invulnerable.
Are some positions overpowered more than level designers would want, quite often yes. And different people have different ethics, so if its not a competitive game it might be good to sometimes retreat if you are doing well, and perhaps report a certain very good position to developers or a mapper.
But all in all I would say if you can do something without the usage of cheats its pretty much allowed. If you think you are using a bug (which is a gray area often) then just report it or ask someone of the devs if its a bug or intended behaviour.
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By the way the only maps I have ever seen real spawnkill is kwajalein and bridges.
Bridges has some strange spawnprotection issues. I even was trapped once behind enemy lines cause I couldnt get back. Anyway, you can hold the far left sides of A and B and literally shoot at spawning atackers when they atack C and after that.
On Kwajalein you can with an MG shoot from A to C where people spawn. They might have to do one step before you can kill them but its still their spawnarea. Everything else is legit.
Bridges has some strange spawnprotection issues. I even was trapped once behind enemy lines cause I couldnt get back. Anyway, you can hold the far left sides of A and B and literally shoot at spawning atackers when they atack C and after that.
On Kwajalein you can with an MG shoot from A to C where people spawn. They might have to do one step before you can kill them but its still their spawnarea. Everything else is legit.
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I personally think it looks like spawn exit killing and in most cases, its kind of a lame move.
However, it results in part from map design, lack of admins that may discourage this behavior, and players spawning and not paying attention or communicating with other players in order to stop the enemy from getting so close in the first place.
In situations where I have found myself viewing a spawn exit, I personally just shoot at the player's feet and cause them to run to cover or go prone, then I usually back out of there.
However, it results in part from map design, lack of admins that may discourage this behavior, and players spawning and not paying attention or communicating with other players in order to stop the enemy from getting so close in the first place.
In situations where I have found myself viewing a spawn exit, I personally just shoot at the player's feet and cause them to run to cover or go prone, then I usually back out of there.
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Usually there are more than 3 exits from a a spawn. if a team loses control over one of their spawn exits then they deserve what happens. if they continue to try and exit there then they are just plain stupid.
Ex...On the map Kwajalein, the japanese trenches overlook the water area. in effect the water is one big open spawn exit. The actual spawn is behind rocks and i have never seen anyone killed until they leave the hidden area behind the rocks.. If it wasnt meant to be fired into the mapper would not have put all the cover there nor had the Japanese heavy machine guns mounted to fire into it.
To me, spawn is where you actually spawn not after you start moving and leaving the spawn area.
Ex...On the map Kwajalein, the japanese trenches overlook the water area. in effect the water is one big open spawn exit. The actual spawn is behind rocks and i have never seen anyone killed until they leave the hidden area behind the rocks.. If it wasnt meant to be fired into the mapper would not have put all the cover there nor had the Japanese heavy machine guns mounted to fire into it.
To me, spawn is where you actually spawn not after you start moving and leaving the spawn area.
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These are just some examples of the bad and chokepoint-ridden map design that is easy to exploit by those willing to sink low enough to use these tactics. These are basically dick moves and borders on exploits. It's despicable.
In addition to the far flanks at A & B at Bridges, allowing you to fire into Allied spawn, there are a lot of maps with major spawn/exit-issues.
Pavlovs House: Axis able to fire into Allied spawn behind E, from the roof of E. Allies have sun in their face and cannot see them very well.
Commissars House: Axis able to get into the spawn building at A after cap, and the warehouse in front of B.
Rakowice: Axis able to get around to the rear of A after it is capped and fire into Allies spawn.
The fact is, once these possibilities exist, they are sure to be discovered and used over and over again by those willing to stoop low enough - and it is the mappers' responsibility these things cannot happen.
In addition to the far flanks at A & B at Bridges, allowing you to fire into Allied spawn, there are a lot of maps with major spawn/exit-issues.
Pavlovs House: Axis able to fire into Allied spawn behind E, from the roof of E. Allies have sun in their face and cannot see them very well.
Commissars House: Axis able to get into the spawn building at A after cap, and the warehouse in front of B.
Rakowice: Axis able to get around to the rear of A after it is capped and fire into Allies spawn.
The fact is, once these possibilities exist, they are sure to be discovered and used over and over again by those willing to stoop low enough - and it is the mappers' responsibility these things cannot happen.
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Nonono. Not the japanese can spawnkill at kwajalein.
The americans can.
First possibilty: Flank far left and get to the back of B. You see the enemy spawn at the trenches of C = Spawnkill possbile.
Second possibilty: After taking A you can get an MG or sniper to look at the middle of C where some enemies spawn and shoot them.
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What a community of babies we have here. Spawn-"exit"-killing... what's next? Post-spawn-exit-killing? Meaning literally anywhere, where careless players don't expect it, is unfair to be killed?
Especially on Apartments where you have two different spawns in the location shown in the video. He should have had bullet up his but after the first wave he shot down.
The only time this is ever actually a problem is on maps like Hanto and Comissar's House, where you can actually lock down the only approach from the last spawn on the defending side with artillery but that's a different situation entirely than a smartly placed machine gun.
Especially on Apartments where you have two different spawns in the location shown in the video. He should have had bullet up his but after the first wave he shot down.
The only time this is ever actually a problem is on maps like Hanto and Comissar's House, where you can actually lock down the only approach from the last spawn on the defending side with artillery but that's a different situation entirely than a smartly placed machine gun.
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Spawns should actually always be located that way you can't be attacked there. If you exit the spawn and catch a bullet, bad luck.
Killing people as they spawn is fine for CoD or UT games, but RO2/RS should have safe spawn areas like inside a building or behind a impenetrable wall, etc.
Sadly some maps force the defenders or attackers into spawn exit killing as the spawns are so close nearby the objective(s) that you can't allow anybody to run.
Killing people as they spawn is fine for CoD or UT games, but RO2/RS should have safe spawn areas like inside a building or behind a impenetrable wall, etc.
Sadly some maps force the defenders or attackers into spawn exit killing as the spawns are so close nearby the objective(s) that you can't allow anybody to run.
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The examples in OPs video are not examples of spawn killing. It is spawn exit killing, but it really only takes one aware player to put a stop to it. Sadly those kind of players seem to be a minority in the game at the moment.
Now, spawn arty on the other hand, that is a problem.
Now, spawn arty on the other hand, that is a problem.
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Yes it's spawn killing.
But :
In RO 2 you can counter spawn killing more easily thanks to spawn point and respawn on SL.
So Spawn killing stays spawn killing. Only way to break spawn killing is more easy in RO 2.
No, it's not. Either a spawn arty can be counter by going to Spawn point or Spawn on SL.
Idea of Spawn point and Spawn on SL finally ruins killing spawn.
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That video in the OP was not spawn killing. Nobody appeared out of thin air while he was shooting, therefore he wasn't shooting in their spawn.
The stupid thing about the first part of the video I watched was that anybody on the Russians could have easily spawned on the other side of the map, walk right up behind him and clubbed him dead. Then they could have camped there to wait for the dummy to try again and keep killing him.
I have seen Germans take up the fixed MG above where he was shooting from, snipers and other German players cover that entire area mowing down Russians as they advanced, pinning down the team.
Is it fair?
As someone who prefers to play the Russians on Apartments, you bet it is. You have two spawn points, you have almost the whole river to move around in to approach from multiple directions. On top of all that, what's stopping someone from going back to the other side of the river, going into the Russian's Apartment building and providing cover fire and picking off these guys from above? The Russians can back track to gain an old advantage of the multiple floored buildings..... And if you only have one or two guys to worry about, what's the problem?
You want to complain about spawn camping? Try Battlefield where an entire team of tanks, troops and helicopters can go right into your only spawn and continually destroy you before you can move. What's worse is that most BF players consider it a legit tactic.
The stupid thing about the first part of the video I watched was that anybody on the Russians could have easily spawned on the other side of the map, walk right up behind him and clubbed him dead. Then they could have camped there to wait for the dummy to try again and keep killing him.
I have seen Germans take up the fixed MG above where he was shooting from, snipers and other German players cover that entire area mowing down Russians as they advanced, pinning down the team.
Is it fair?
As someone who prefers to play the Russians on Apartments, you bet it is. You have two spawn points, you have almost the whole river to move around in to approach from multiple directions. On top of all that, what's stopping someone from going back to the other side of the river, going into the Russian's Apartment building and providing cover fire and picking off these guys from above? The Russians can back track to gain an old advantage of the multiple floored buildings..... And if you only have one or two guys to worry about, what's the problem?
You want to complain about spawn camping? Try Battlefield where an entire team of tanks, troops and helicopters can go right into your only spawn and continually destroy you before you can move. What's worse is that most BF players consider it a legit tactic.
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Yeah, I noticed that too, a rifleman or sniper could easily have taken the guy out from the second story across the bridge.
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Battlefield Bad Company 2 - Spawn killing ? - YouTube
^ This is spawn killing and this is one of the primary reasons why I don't play BF anymore. Why anybody would stay on the server for that long just to stare at the screen, watching yourself get killed the moment you spawn is beyond me. And when you have the whole team doing it, it's not a game anymore.... Hell they just do it to rack up their points and unlocks.
And people think bot farming is bad?
^ This is spawn killing and this is one of the primary reasons why I don't play BF anymore. Why anybody would stay on the server for that long just to stare at the screen, watching yourself get killed the moment you spawn is beyond me. And when you have the whole team doing it, it's not a game anymore.... Hell they just do it to rack up their points and unlocks.
And people think bot farming is bad?
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What is stopping the defenders of appartments to go to the other side and shoot the russians in the back?
SPAWNPROTECTION
You cant cross the river. The moment you go behind the wall you get the read screen of spawnprotection... Thought everyone knew this?
Or did I misread you?Anyway, I agree on your points though.
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this video is not of spawn killing , it of just exploits
there alot of exploits in the game .
Like using Team Speak and roam in the game as a spy in the sky to tell people on your team were people are or tell them were there a hole in the defends
Some people think it ok to use exploits like this .
They look for exploits on maps and in the game and if they can use it , it part of the game .
It like driving in Fuss-ball it bad sportsmanship
there alot of exploits in the game .
Like using Team Speak and roam in the game as a spy in the sky to tell people on your team were people are or tell them were there a hole in the defends
Some people think it ok to use exploits like this .
They look for exploits on maps and in the game and if they can use it , it part of the game .
It like driving in Fuss-ball it bad sportsmanship
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If you have a safe choice of what to do after spawning, like throwing smoke or a nade or taking another route - then it is not spawn killing. So that Apartments footage was in no way spawn killing.
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At that particular spot shown in the video, the Attackers can spawn JUST in view of where this MG is placed (next to the bridge, almost) and be shot down after the (aprox) 3 second spawn protection. This spawn, however, is the most camped of the two on that area of the map, as arses on the defending team can sit in the central apartment complex and shoot cleanly into the spawn zone.
The video is on the very edge of what I personally call spawn camping. And no doubt if on the receiving end I'd have some choice words for you, involving prodding buttocks and gnawing my way through the wall to get you.
The video is on the very edge of what I personally call spawn camping. And no doubt if on the receiving end I'd have some choice words for you, involving prodding buttocks and gnawing my way through the wall to get you.
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Personal opinion, yes. Its due to map design.
Theres almost no difference between spawnkilling and what happened in the first clip (apartments) because of how small the chokepoint is and the actual ability to move from the spawn to anywhere else. Basically 0 chance to move from the spawn point to anywhere.
The other clips are fine because you actually have options to do something.
Off-topic. MG34 with ubermagazine is retarded and the Dp-28 may as well not exist in the game due to the 'hero' system. 100 round MG34 is acceptable IMO.
Theres almost no difference between spawnkilling and what happened in the first clip (apartments) because of how small the chokepoint is and the actual ability to move from the spawn to anywhere else. Basically 0 chance to move from the spawn point to anywhere.
The other clips are fine because you actually have options to do something.
Off-topic. MG34 with ubermagazine is retarded and the Dp-28 may as well not exist in the game due to the 'hero' system. 100 round MG34 is acceptable IMO.
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