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Old 12-09-2014, 04:21 PM
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Default Lets talk about PS4 and KF2

With the news of the Sony Playstation 4 hitting this weekend, and the subsequent wave of expected feedback ranging from "yeah KF2 on PS4" to "oh no TWI are going to ruin the PC version" I thought it would be a good time for me to weigh in with some thoughts and information. I would like to apologize in advance for the long post, but I have a lot to cover.

First off let me talk about the "why," as in why we're bringing a game to consoles now. Alan Wilson touched on this in his blog here http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/...time-is-right/ but I'll give a bit more detail. As you all probably know, Tripwire Interactive are hardcore PC gamers and developers. We love the PC as a platform and have been championing it for years, even in the dark days of 2005 when all the press could talk about was how the "PC was dead." We've been very successful on PC selling million of games, and we've no intention of leaving the PC or relegating the PC to a "second class citizen".

A few things have changed in the gaming landscape recently though that got our attention. First off, game consoles have greatly increased in power for the new generation and their architecture is much better. When we looked at bringing games to the previous generation of consoles, they had far too low performance and not enough ram for us to provide the type of experience that we wanted to make. This means that we could now create an experience on the console without having to compromise the experience. Additionally, the previous generations of consoles were very different than a PC's architecture, meaning that it look a lot more effort to make a game run well on both platforms. This is no longer the case, as current gen consoles have an architecture much more similar to a PC.

Secondly, as you all probably know Tripwire Interactive is a fiercely independent company. We fund our own games, we publish our own games, and we succeed or fail based on our own decisions. No one tells us what game to make, when to release it, or what the content of the game should be. Our only limit is our time, resources, and talent. In the past when we looked into getting a game on consoles, we were told by the console manufacturers that we would HAVE to go through a big publisher if we wanted to get our games on their console. They wouldn't deal directly with an independent company. Now however, that has changed, and Sony has opened up the PS4 for independent developers like Tripwire.

Another consideration for us is the business side. This is something fans generally don't get to see, but games have gotten a LOT more expensive to make in the past few years. With the complexity of modern games and game engines, on top of the art requirements for modern games the cost of making games from the early 2000s to now has exploded. Red Orchestra 1 and Killing Floor 1 were both developed on just a few hundred thousand dollars as they were developed on older game engines. Red Orchestra 2 cost millions of dollars to make, and Killing Floor 2 will likely cost much more to make by the time we are done. When we made RO1 we had 4 employees, KF1 we had 11 employees, RO2 started with 7 employees and got up to 25 by the time it shipped. KF2 is being developed by 50 people. With game development costs rising it is very important as a business to make your games available in as many places as possible, to as many potential customers as possible.

When done right however, this is a good thing for fans. Let me explain how. Right now, shipping a game on a console adds about 10% additional work (very rough estimate) but opens your fanbase up to tens of millions of additional gamers. So if we as a studio can do 10% more work but gain 25%, 50%, even 100% more customers that's a great thing and here is why. Lets say we could afford to spend $2,000,000 making a game for the PC only, but we could afford to spend $4,000,000 if we released it on PC and console. In the end PC gamers get almost double the features and content as the developer could have afforded to make if they released the game on a single platform alone. Over the past few years you've been benefiting from this but never knew it. Great multi-platform games like Farcry 3, Dishonored, etc all wouldn't have been possible at the scope that they were released at if they were only on a single platform.

Finally, and likely the most important reason for it as that we just think it will be fun. Sure, we're hardcore PC guys, but a lot of us also grew up playing console games on the Atari, NES, Playstation, etc. We think it will be fun to bring a game to the living room, and to expose a new crowd of gamers to Tripwire's style of games and doing business (i.e. different types of games and lots of free updates, post release support etc). In other words, Tripwire is not being "consolized", rather we plan on "Tripwirizing" console gamers. The time has come when we can put games on the consoles on our terms, without compromise, and we're excited for this new frontier and the experiences we'll be able to provide gamers.

More discussion on this in Part 2 here:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...d.php?t=102726
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:29 PM
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Thanks for the post, glad to see some of my concerns answered.

So now how possible is it to allow at least 2 player splitscreen in KF2?
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:31 PM
Fedorov Fedorov is offline
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Thank you based Tripwire.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:47 PM
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See, all you have to do is criticize them and they'll start talking in details about things


P.S. Far Cry 3 is not great game IMO.

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Old 12-09-2014, 05:04 PM
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So now how possible is it to allow at least 2 player splitscreen in KF2?
I'd like to know this too, If I ever decide to get a PS4, it would be nice to know, that if it would be possible to play KF2 in split screen local/multiplayer co-op?
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:13 PM
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If the PS4 does get split-screen, then the PC version should as well. Believe it or not, I have my PC hooked up to my TV and love playing local multiplayer on it as much as I can.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:15 PM
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Thanks for the post, glad to see some of my concerns answered.

So now how possible is it to allow at least 2 player splitscreen in KF2?
No current plans for split screen, however plans could change.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:16 PM
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See, all you have to do is criticize them and they'll start talking in details about things
Erm no. I was out of the country when the announcement happened, and just got back. Being respectful and asking questions is the best way to get info. Being overly critical just annoys and and makes us avoid the forums
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:38 PM
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I look forward to see how mod support is going to play out as far as the PS4 is concerned.

TWI has goofed before and I guess I can only say I hope they don't for KF2. However, since I've already secured a free copy of the early access release of the game from the ScrN tournament, it won't impact my wallet to find out for myself!

With the fear of the spoiling the game because of the console version out of the way, the only fear I have left is that the grey-brown colour scheme doesn't get a little more vibrant and mixed by release! :P
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:42 PM
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Erm no. I was out of the country when the announcement happened, and just got back. Being respectful and asking questions is the best way to get info. Being overly critical just annoys and and makes us avoid the forums
You cannot avoid something that is yours.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:42 PM
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TWI has goofed before and I guess I can only say I hope they don't for KF2. However, since I've already secured a free copy of the early access release of the game from the ScrN tournament, it won't impact my wallet to find out for myself!
How has Tripwire goofed, aside from the RO2 launch which has already been covered?
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:44 PM
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You cannot avoid something that is yours.
Actually I can. It's really easy, I just don't open the forums if I don't want to, and let the community manager (Yoshiro) let me know whats happening there. But in the past year I got tired of having to avoid the forums, so we cleaned house and banned the guys that were trolls, flamers, and not contributing anything constructive to the community.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:49 PM
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How has Tripwire goofed, aside from the RO2 launch which has already been covered?
I was referring to the RO2 launch. I don't know what you mean by "already covered", but I was just alluding to it. That's pretty much all.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:55 PM
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I was referring to the RO2 launch. I don't know what you mean by "already covered", but I was just alluding to it. That's pretty much all.
Already covered in part 2:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...d.php?t=102726

The short version is, ancient history, we learned from our mistakes, fixed the game, put out 3 more years of free updates, and then released Rising Storm which went really smooth. So yeah we're pretty much done talking about RO2 launch.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:02 PM
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:03 PM
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I'm not particularly perturbed by it being on PS4, though honestly, it's going to wind up being wasted effort. This generation will be the death of consoles; that's already in motion and won't be slowing down for anything. PC dominates in every region of the world except classically NTSC countries, and the handhold of consoles is slipping dramatically in those due to clear factual inferiority of the products and services offered. If "10% extra effort" also winds up leading to 10% extra profit, over any length of time, I'd be flabbergasted.

I guess you guys know which way your bread is buttered, since you actually know your own sales data, and whatnot. I just hope that this doesn't wind up costing you more money than it brings in.
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [TW]Ramm-Jaeger View Post
Already covered in part 2:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...d.php?t=102726

The short version is, ancient history, we learned from our mistakes, fixed the game, put out 3 more years of free updates, and then released Rising Storm which went really smooth. So yeah we're pretty much done talking about RO2 launch.
General we see that when something goes good we dont talk about it, when it goes wrong it comes back constantly, can be seen everywhere in the society.

Alfred: “Bruce, why do we fall?”
Bruce: “So we can pick ourselves up again.”

Standing up and learning is the way to go, which Tripwire does.

Ramm-Jaeger if anybody ever asks about the red color in the TWI logo, remind them about the human blood that goes through all of us
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:36 AM
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Thanks for the info! It's great to see you're giving console players a chance to enjoy KF aswel! :-)

Any estimations when the game is coming to Steam for pre-order? Because IM DROPPING DOSH, grab it while you can! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:38 AM
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What worries me is how the difficulty will change to support a Ps4 version. It's barely impossible to aim fast with a controller when using an Xbow, for example. It's like playng Counter Strike on a consolle and pretending there will be the same skill level as the pc version.
That's why games like Call of Duty do not have an advanced recoil system and every single item has an assisted dot on it.
It's impossible for me to imagine an Hell on Earth map from the first KF played on a Playstation engine.
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Old 12-10-2014, 11:46 AM
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And with your replies Ramm, this is why I highly respect you.

I am glad to see you guys are making more moves again since we saw the ouya (Is that how it is spelt?) and it went quite successful overall. I can tell you this, it will go successful for the PS4. I'm a PS hater since 3 was released but I can tell you this, there is a very high amount of happy people with just that trailer.

I hope for all the best on your release!
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