Players getting more guns, Zeds staying the same?

[Splatpope]

Originally Posted by Shining Wolf

Guys, just render an all Sharp M99, HOE vid. I wanna see how Max responds, although I'm guessing he's genuinely trolling at this point.

Nah, Arblarg is trolling, Maddox is just... maddox

[Left 4 Dinner]

Originally Posted by Splatpope

Nah, Arblarg is trolling, Maddox is just... maddox

Quoted for truth

[jorgamun]

I personally advocate less ammo and longer animation times for the M99. It's tough to balance it because the concept is to be a big bad hitter, but as it stands it changes the game in a way that, like everyone else has said, takes away from teamwork. Perhaps lowering the ammo and making its animations last a bit longer will help add that necessary element of your teammates needing to cover you. Maybe adding a speed reduction debuff while you have the gun out as well.

While I don't like having such an overpowered gun, I also pretty much equally don't like the idea of turning it into a worthless gun compared to its alternatives also.

[Aze]

I clearly understand that people think the M99 is overpowered but i don't really understand one thing:

How does it TAKE AWAY teamwork?
Sharpshooter with M99 = Focus on big ones, help a little with the trash using the 9mm
All the others = Do other functions such as mainly kill trash and medium speciemen, tank in emergencies, heal, help with FP if the M99 misses the second headshot etc

It's like saying: A demolitions who focuses on taking out Fleshpounds and occassionally helps with trash, he isn't working with the team! But that is exactly what the demolitions always has been doing, and that has been considered a great teamwork-role for the perk. How is that any different from the M99 Sharpshooter?

The "it takes away teamwork"-card is not a valid arguement imo. Shouldn't you instead be saying that it simply makes the Sharpshooter's "job" (taking out the big ones) a bit too easy? Cuz if he is doing his "job", that is most certainly a teamwork-thing imo.

[FoxReinhold]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah... other people can win on HoE besides me now and my old strategies now have alternatives which other people can use. Waaaaaaaaaaaah!

So instead of a Demo soloing the FP with an M32, which is easy as balls, the Sharpshooter can do it. Or the people I play with, we like to use a combo. With proper situational awareness and teamwork, we can do FPs nicely (but only because we work together well and plan ahead). One headshot from M99 followed by 2 - 4 nades from Demo (yay teamwork!). If the server has the kill messages on, they let the demo know when it's dead. If not, the commando (usually played by myself) tries to watch the life and shouts when he sees the life bar disappear (I have a macro! ) It requires a good team, quick thinking, pre-planning and excellent coordination. (The commando still has to be trashing Zeds while watching the life bar).

The only thing I would do to the M99 is make it so the sharpy has to go prone in order to use it. It is an Anti-material rifle and would more than likely snap your arm in two if you tried to fire it from the hip (due to recoil).

But again... Waah. I can't believe people are still going on about this

[jorgamun]

Originally Posted by Aze

The "it takes away teamwork"-card is not a valid arguement imo. Shouldn't you instead be saying that it simply makes the Sharpshooter's "job" (taking out the big ones) a bit too easy? Cuz if he is doing his "job", that is most certainly a teamwork-thing imo.

That's too much of a simplification, though. With a good M99 Sharpshooter it's almost like Fleshpounds barely exist. You take them out in two headshots from any distance without the detriments of Demo (full M32 clip and some pipebombs to scramble it up versus two unobtrusive shots). Scrakes are single shots. Yeah, the Sharpshooter is indeed doing his role, but when his role becomes too easy and you practically eradicate the threat of those zeds entirely then there's not that much teamwork to be had with the remaining game. That's what we're referring to with teamwork - when the rest of the team can pretty much ignore the big zeds (where before there was much more failure rate with sharpshooting and demolitions being used to take out Scrakes and Fleshpounds and it wasn't as instant) there's a lot of that synchronization that was required before lost.

My suggestions don't aim to nerf the M99 into being unable to fulfill that role. Honestly, I wish the gun had never come into the game since they can't very well just remove the idea of the big *** sniper rifle now, but if it's here to stay we might as well discuss ways to make it fit in better.

Originally Posted by FoxReinhold

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah... other people can win on HoE besides me now and my old strategies now have alternatives which other people can use. Waaaaaaaaaaaah!

You're the only one crying in this thread. Grow up and join the discussion.

[Splatpope]

Originally Posted by Aze

I clearly understand that people think the M99 is overpowered but i don't really understand one thing:

How does it TAKE AWAY teamwork?
Sharpshooter with M99 = Focus on big ones, help a little with the trash using the 9mm
All the others = Do other functions such as mainly kill trash and medium speciemen, tank in emergencies, heal, help with FP if the M99 misses the second headshot etc

It's like saying: A demolitions who focuses on taking out Fleshpounds and occassionally helps with trash, he isn't working with the team! But that is exactly what the demolitions always has been doing, and that has been considered a great teamwork-role for the perk. How is that any different from the M99 Sharpshooter?

The "it takes away teamwork"-card is not a valid arguement imo. Shouldn't you instead be saying that it simply makes the Sharpshooter's "job" (taking out the big ones) a bit too easy? Cuz if he is doing his "job", that is most certainly a teamwork-thing imo.

Bad m99 sharp ****s up every big thing, the 2 level 6 supports behind playing on hard slaughter the trash, and the little level 3 guys behind try to pick up the leftovers, but they really wonder what they're doing here. Next thing they know, the 3 first guys wipe stupidly and they're left with their incoming doom, helpless and clueless.

There's obviously no such issue with private matches or all level 6 games, though at that point, the M99 sharp is clearly in for a point and click game instead of Killing Floor, and I can only advise them to try Monkey Island, I've heard it was pretty cool.


(This is obviously different for demo because he can't do **** at close range unless he has a death wish and he simply needs loads more ammo and (lol i cant believe I'm saying this) accuracy than pew pew fp dead M99.)

[Left 4 Dinner]

why not make the price of it much more expsensive, kinda like how the LAW is, and maybe even make its ammunition much more pricey too, that way yo udont see M99 sharpys, using the darn weapon after just the first 3 waves. Like I said before, maybe a slower scope/unscope animation and the inability to no-scope shots, would be a reasonable tweek.

[Splatpope]

Originally Posted by Left 4 Dinner

why not make the price of it much more expsensive, kinda like how the LAW is, and maybe even make its ammunition much more pricey too, that way yo udont see M99 sharpys, using the darn weapon after just the first 3 waves. Like I said before, maybe a slower scope/unscope animation and the inability to no-scope shots, would be a reasonable tweek.

Well, seeing as m99 is irrelevant until wave 5-6, that wouldn't have as much impact, but it should still be done. This way, you die once and you can hope for your whole team to sacrifice their money so you can be the crutch once again.

[Arblarg]

Originally Posted by Splatpope

Nah, Arblarg is trolling, Maddox is just... maddox

Have different opinion, be labeled troll. KF forums in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by FoxReinhold

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah... other people can win on HoE besides me now and my old strategies now have alternatives which other people can use. Waaaaaaaaaaaah!

So instead of a Demo soloing the FP with an M32, which is easy as balls, the Sharpshooter can do it. Or the people I play with, we like to use a combo. With proper situational awareness and teamwork, we can do FPs nicely (but only because we work together well and plan ahead). One headshot from M99 followed by 2 - 4 nades from Demo (yay teamwork!). If the server has the kill messages on, they let the demo know when it's dead. If not, the commando (usually played by myself) tries to watch the life and shouts when he sees the life bar disappear (I have a macro! ) It requires a good team, quick thinking, pre-planning and excellent coordination. (The commando still has to be trashing Zeds while watching the life bar).

The only thing I would do to the M99 is make it so the sharpy has to go prone in order to use it. It is an Anti-material rifle and would more than likely snap your arm in two if you tried to fire it from the hip (due to recoil).

But again... Waah. I can't believe people are still going on about this

This thread in a nutshell. (Mostly the parts that call for a waaaambulance.)

[Proxyhat]

I agree the m99 can be very OP. I don't find it, personally, very rewarding to wield. I have it removed from my server.

I really just don't like OP weapons altogether, really. Not very fun. I don't like feeling like a super hero?, lol - being the underdog is more fun. You know, winning despite the odds against you. That's rewarding.

[Lippa]

Originally Posted by Arblarg

Have different opinion, be labeled troll. KF forums in a nutshell.


This thread in a nutshell. (Mostly the parts that call for a waaaambulance.)

I wouldn't label you a troll, trolling is when one attempts to act stupid to get a reaction, you aren't attempting to act stupid, you're just being yourself. plain and simple

[Shining Wolf]

Originally Posted by Lippa

I wouldn't label you a troll, trolling is when one attempts to act stupid to get a reaction, you aren't attempting to act stupid, you're just being yourself. plain and simple

.........

[Lippa]

Originally Posted by Shining Wolf

.........

This topic has gotten so farfetched, I've already spoken my input about the matter you questioned, simply replying to the ridiculous replies

[Ducky]

Lock Warning!

[Shining Wolf]

Not related to how the new weapons are screwing with balance, but I just saw someone use the crossbow again and... Lol... It has such a ridiculous ROF now that Scrakes are killed almost instantly on HOE even with that weapon. What if Scrake chain stunning for katanas, LARs and Crossbows was just removed? I'd say Scrakes should strafe, too, but that's be overkill for something with so much health and damage output, even if I don't like that they run in straight lines into the second bolt if it doesn't stun.

Originally Posted by Lippa

This topic has gotten so farfetched, I've already spoken my input about the matter you questioned, simply replying to the ridiculous replies

No, you called Arblarg stupid. You didn't call his stupid views on the M99 stupid, you called him stupid. Don't try to act like you didn't.

[Left 4 Dinner]

yeah the crossbow reload rate, is just so damn fast that its crazy. I still dont like the M99 but if anyone wants to use it, then so be it. For those who want to challenge themselfs, they dont pick that weapon.

[jorgamun]

Maybe we do really need a new zed in standard gameplay though. Players are getting more powerful through diversity and some seemingly straight upgrades to certain playstyles while the zeds are just chilling with it. After having played with the Brute I think it's not the answer that the game needs, but another Zed might well be worth it...

I hope we get one this year.

[Liberty]

Originally Posted by Arblarg

Have different opinion, be labeled troll. KF forums in a nutshell.


This thread in a nutshell. (Mostly the parts that call for a waaaambulance.)

It really isn't that hard to understand, I've pointed it out before.

Every other sharp weapon requires progressive skill jumps going from normal, hard, suicidal, hell on earth when dealing with "Big bads"

For the m99 the skill jump stops at normal for scrakes and hard for fleshpounds.

Its not about who can win HoE games or how they do it. (4 supports + whatever else you want to bring has been easy mode for a while now) Its about difficulty progression and the lack of it with the m99.

[Spicy]

Originally Posted by Liberty

Its about difficulty progression and the lack of it with the m99.

Are we still talking about Killing Floor?

I mean, the Crossbow and the Hunting Shotgun stuff isn't bad once you practice. Once you can consistently land headshots, then any Commando weapon is even more glorious, while the MP7 and MP5 are pretty close behind. People always hate on the Firebug which breaks my heart, but MAC-10 and the Husk Cannon give you two weapons to headshot everything with *and* set stuff on fire.

The M99 is a cracked-out Crossbow (or "Crossbow on steroids"). When it comes to Scrakes, it pretty much has to be. I could see taking 3 Headshots for Fleshpounds, that would be fine as the Crossbow needs 4. Roll the firing speed back to 4 seconds with the Sharpshooter bonus included then you don't have to worry about off-perk usage and still being able to kill Scrakes as if they were a Sharpie with a Crossbow.

I wouldn't be against a slight reduction in total ammunition for the M99. The only thing with that is, despite the L.A.W. "sucking" it weighs the same as the M99 and you can carry just as many L.A.W. rockets as M99 rounds.

I honestly don't even know why I'm posting right now. I wanted to just insult people, because that's where this thread was going, but Duck'y lock warning image is making me want to be semi-constructive. (Damn you!) :[