This game missed the opportunity to have shoulder fired LMGs

[migmadmarine]

Yes, I do agree it would be nice to see your left hand supporting the belt, and perhaps have jams modeled. Also, I didn't know that the partial belt was a feature, though I kind of wish it were the last one loaded, not the second...

[Don Draper]

At first i thought you meant this:


Then i realised you meant this:

http://youtu.be/WSOGwRDAb7M

[PhoenixDragon]

Originally Posted by Don Draper

Then i realised you meant this:

http://youtu.be/WSOGwRDAb7M

That's someone who really doesn't know how to handle his weapon...

Real soldiers do much better:
Firing the M240B standing - YouTube shoulder firing the 240B - YouTube Shooting M240 7.62mm machine gun from the hip - YouTube

...even when they do some really silly stuff:
Dual Weilding M249 Machine Guns - YouTube

[Nikita]

Originally Posted by PhoenixDragon

That's someone who really doesn't know how to handle his weapon...

Real soldiers do much better

...by adopting a proper stance and NOT jogging, side-strafing, and climbing stairs while they fire.

[Ritterkreuz]

It's interesting to hear that the 250 round belt was removed. Still, 150 rounds is too much from purely a gameplay perspective as the DP cannot get an upgrade. I think in most firing situations, 50 rounds is much too little (and completely hampers the suppression role of the MG) and, on the flip side, there is rarely a need to fire over 150 rounds over a short period of time.

The MG34/42's, if modeled realistically, should have no more than one 100 round belt (effectively, 2 50 round belts linked together) at a time. Beyond that, a 150 round belt is too long for one man to handle and carry over his shoulders. It would have to be from an ammo box.

Overall, I consider the level 20 DP to be a better MG in this game vs. level 20 drum-fed MG34. The 47 round pan/50 round drum are for careful shooting only rather than any sort of real suppression. This plays in favor of the DP's lower cyclic and higher accuracy.

I can't attest to how the level 25 or level 50 MG34 performs (as I've only used them briefly), but I'm sure that the balance is tilted back towards the MG34.

[migmadmarine]

For a while I would carry the MG-34 for both sides, but more recently I take the DP when playing Russian as I have gotten so used to the 34.

[PhoenixDragon]

Originally Posted by Nikita

...by adopting a proper stance and NOT jogging, side-strafing, and climbing stairs while they fire.

Which is all better solved by making the weapon horribly uncontrollable and hard to use when moving, not by locking the trigger.

[Nikita]

Originally Posted by PhoenixDragon

Which is all better solved by making the weapon horribly uncontrollable and hard to use when moving, not by locking the trigger.

If someone wants to to go the length to add a mechanic that adds strong recoil, resistance to LMG hipfire while moving, with a random probability that the player will be knocked off balance or even pushed over backwards as they fire while moving, such that a result similar to that encountered by our Syrian rebel becomes possible in-game if a player does not pay sufficient attention to stance, then I will gladly accept such a solution.

Anything that makes jogging, strafing LMG hipfire the desperation/stupidity tactic it would be in a real firefight, as opposed to the very viable CQB technique it is at the moment.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Originally Posted by Nikita

If someone wants to to go the length to add a mechanic that adds strong recoil, resistance to LMG hipfire while moving, with a random probability that the player will be knocked off balance or even pushed over backwards as they fire while moving, such that a result similar to that encountered by our Syrian rebel becomes possible in-game if a player does not pay sufficient attention to stance, then I will gladly accept such a solution.

Anything that makes jogging, strafing LMG hipfire the desperation/stupidity tactic it would be in a real firefight, as opposed to the very viable CQB technique it is at the moment.

Exactly. If you want those extra benefits, then you must be willing to accept all of the drawbacks that comes with it.

[PhoenixDragon]

Adding weapon-sway for weapons not in iron-sights, with a very large increase when moving (A variable on the weapon, making heavier weapons swing around much more than light weapons while moving) and significantly increasing the recoil when moving should be enough. The former is fairly easy to do (Probably building off the existing sway code for iron-sight shooting, no new animations needed), and the latter is just tweaking one variable on a weapon, not a new mechanic.

A more thorough system, where weapons have a "transition time" (A variable time depending on weapon, very quick for weapons like pistols or SMGs, up to maybe a second for LMGs) which scales the used values between moving and stationary (To prevent stopping and immediately having stationary stats) would take only a little more work.

Knocking people over for firing like that only makes sense if we include it for everything that would do so. Right now, nothing can knock a person over unless it kills them. Having someone able to fall over due to recoil, but not from sprinting across broken and unstable terrain, or taking a rifle-round through the knee, would be pretty silly.

In any case, my main objection about the clip didn't have anything to do with hip-firing on the move. The guy in the video had just come to a stop when he fired. He was just really bad with his weapon, so I provided some videos of soldiers who were competent with their weapons. Heck, I found another one of a soldier dual-wielding M240s, just for fun, and still doing better than him.