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MG recoil - TW Please read

Sight

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 10, 2006
149
142
Dear TW,

the jumping recoil under sustained fire for MG's makes no sense gameplay wise and realism wise.Even on short to medium ranges, enemys behind cover can't get killed under sustained fire because of the jumping recoil.MG's are so bug plagued anyway, when finally beeing deployed it should rip under sustained fire.

Definition jumping recoil: The recoil that is moving your MG ironsight up and down.This get s reduced whene leveling up yet it s completely unrealistic and frustrating gameplay wise because it is not possible to control the recoil, it s just too random.Especially because this changes as you level up you can t really get used to it easily.

I am NOT saying remove the recoil, i love to control the recoil manually! I love this skill aspect in a shooter but when it gets too random/uncontrolable it get s annoying/frustrating as you can't achieve the skill!

I am not a big fan of the jumping recoil on all automatic weapons as on low levels it almost feels like the caliber is changing.A steady and even recoil is not just more realistic and makes more sense, it is also more understandable for the player.He knows what skill he has to master and knows it is achieveble.The jumping recoil is almost uncontrolable,especially on longer distances and enemys behind cover.

Please TW let at least MG s shine when they are finally deployed and in a good position.

EDIT:

I am not against recoil.

I am stating that a jumping recoil like the MG34 has extremly, is making shooting uncontrolable and takes away a skill to master from the players and instead puts it into the hand of a roleplaying like experience where it magically gets reduced/disapears when leveling up.

The argument that it needs to be in as a gameplay mechanism is only right to a certain extend as when you level up it get s reduced drastically and still MG's are far from overpowered.On the DP-28 the side spread get s reduced artifically through leveling, there isn't something to learn or master aswell.This stuff has to go, this is not Killing Floor, this is a competitive Muliplayer shooter....

This jumping recoil is just completely wrong and gay in my opinion because it,

1.) takes away the skill factor one has to master because the jumping recoil just isn t controlable,there isn't something to master.

2.) Is putting this skill factor into a leveling system that is changing weapon handling artifically through the leveling system.

I want the challenge to control a recoil.Heck, i love it! Problem is the jumping recoil is like a artifical bullet spread that forces you to shoot a certain way depending on your level because you simply cant hold down the trigger before the jumping recoil kicks in.It s not controlable, there is no skill to master.There is nothing to learn, it s just a dumbed down roleplaying like mechanism.
 
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This is something which has come up a lot and I also think the recoil on the deployed MG should be reviewed. An entrenched MG should be almost unassailable from the front and able to mow down enemy soldiers with sustained fire with ease. But I find that they jump and jerk around too much.

The DP28 suffers the most. I have often seen multiple enemies run out into open ground, but whereas I should be able to cut them down easily with a long burst, it's actually very hard to get the rounds on target.
 
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLxzdyTnuwc" target="_blank">Shooting MG-42 from gunners perspective on lafette mount - YouTube


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=BxDauR7REPw" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=BxDauR7REPw" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=BxDauR7REPw" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=BxDauR7REPw" target="_blank">[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=BxDauR7REPw[/URL]


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN2x1zrFpLk" target="_blank">DP28 Short Burst in Kingsport, TN - YouTube
 
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Soldiers who have shot MG say they are realistic with recoil.

Gamers say they are not.

Which one to believe.


BTW. On the posted you tube videos, first one shows nicely how TRIPOD mounted MG jumps up. Second video show DP-28 wildly twisting up under recoil with no hope of hitting a mansized target at 100m. This is your proof?
 
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Soldiers who have shot MG say they are realistic with recoil.

Gamers say they are not.

Which one to believe.

Where was this said? I'd be interested to hear the soldiers you mention give their experiences.

Also, how do you know the OP isn't a solider? Or has had experience firing machine guns?

BTW. On the posted you tube videos, first one shows nicely how TRIPOD mounted MG jumps up. Second video show DP-28 wildly twisting up under recoil with no hope of hitting a mansized target at 100m. This is your proof?

I agree with your point about the tripod MG vids, but are we watching the same DP28 vid? I see guy firing a machine gun with very little muzzle climb, instead it just pushes back into his shoulder.
 
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Soldiers who have shot MG say they are realistic with recoil.

Gamers say they are not.

Which one to believe.
I was a light machine gunner in the army and the upward travel of the MGs in game is a bit more than what I experienced, especially when burst fired. Granted, I was firing the M249 and the M240 as opposed to WWII era LMGs.


BTW. On the posted you tube videos, first one shows nicely how TRIPOD mounted MG jumps up.
The first video is not valid for this discussion, in my opinion, as the gun is tripod mounted, as you observed. We can agree there.
Second video show DP-28 wildly twisting up under recoil
were you watching the video that's actually in this thread? It shows no such thing. There is virtually no upward recoil in that DP-28 video.
with no hope of hitting a mansized target at 100m. This is your proof?
You have no idea what 100m looks like, do you? It's almost harder to spit on the ground than to hit a man sized target at 100m with a rifle or LMG.
 
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Where was this said? I'd be interested to hear the soldiers you mention give their experiences.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67752

And many other threads...

I agree with your point about the tripod MG vids, but are we watching the same DP28 vid? I see guy firing a machine gun with very little muzzle climb, instead it just pushes back into his shoulder.

Just look how the shooters shoulder moves when he stops firing and the weapon returns from recoil. His shoulder moves up a lot.

Anyway: I drew two lines with a second apart somewhere there (9s-10s of the video) to show you the movement. Problem is not that the lines are not in the same place. Movement in any direction does not matter. BUT the barrel oh his gun is turning up a lot (what would one expect from such stance!) as you can see the lines are not parallel. This is the big problem. there is 2-3cm relative up-down movement between the tip of the barrel and bottom of the receiver which directly translates to shooting 2-3 meters high (at 100m distance) from the original aiming point. Here are the pics:
 

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Thre is absouletely no way the recoil in-game behaves as a real MG of that time is.It is simly not possible to have the ironsights jumping up and down when using a bipod.Who ever claims that and say they fired a real MG is either lying or has had a wrong perception.

The recoil pattern just got USED by TW on MG'S aswell as almost all automatic weapons have this to a certain extend yet it makes no sense for MG's.

This is why i made the suggestion to remove the jumping recoil and change this design decision that was probably made because of time running out and a lot of pressure to realse the game.At least for MG's as it makes no sense gameplay wise and realism wise.

If you guys like videos so much, have a look at the barrel raise and recoil of the MG34 used on a bipod.There is almost no barrel raise.I am not saying i want this in-game or because of a youtube video the game has to change it s recoil.I love recoil and my point is not to have this game completely realistic or like in a youtube video.It s not all about realism, it s about having a great gameplay that is authentic and fun in my opinion.However the jumping recoil is a uncontrolable recoil.

Recoil is a great skill aspect in a game that all these console shooters don t have anymore.They all work with artifical bullet spread offering a shooting experience that is sterile and lacking an important skill aspect.However the jumping recoil is uncontrolable, there is no skill to learn or to achieve.Don't get me wrong guys, i am not saying remove the recoil or make it weaker it is the jumping recoil i am criticising.

Here is the video:

MG-34 shooting and disassembly - YouTube

Please note that these guys know how to shoot.The guy with the DP-28 in the video above has a wrong stance and it is not in-game.
 
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That is why you shouldn't use youtube videos from the side as a proof of anything: minute things in the video make huge difference in the receiving end.

In game the gun does the same as in the video, but the perception of it is somewhat unrealistic. In game the "eye" moves and turns slaved to the perfect sight picture as if it were solidly connected to the gun. The barrel seems to jump up, whilst the gun is actually just turning around a pivot (which is probably the bipod). In real life the sight picture breaks up (to degree, of course) in the first shot unlike the game as the shooters eye is attached to his head and not the gun.

Is that possible to understand or not?

I repeat it is a matter of turning and perception, not barrel jumping up and down....
 
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Speaking from experience, firing a mg from a bipod will have recoil. you have to remember, just a miniscule recoil at the gun can translate into a meter difference at 500m. By doctrine a mg should be operated in 5 to 7 round bursts to minimize recoil and effectively put rounds on target. Also keep in mind a mg is not a point weapon but a area weapon. this is why I love RO and its accuracy in mg fire.
 
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Thre is absouletely no way the recoil in-game behaves as a real MG of that time is.It is simly not possible to have the ironsights jumping up and down when using a bipod.Who ever claims that and say they fired a real MG is either lying or has had a wrong perception.

The recoil pattern just got USED by TW on MG'S aswell as almost all automatic weapons have this to a certain extend yet it makes no sense for MG's.

This is why i made the suggestion to remove the jumping recoil and change this design decision that was probably made because of time running out and a lot of pressure to realse the game.At least for MG's as it makes no sense gameplay wise and realism wise.

If you guys like videos so much, have a look at the barrel raise and recoil of the MG34 used on a bipod.There is almost no barrel raise.I am not saying i want this in-game or because of a youtube video the game has to change it s recoil.I love recoil and my point is not to have this game completely realistic or like in a youtube video.It s not all about realism, it s about having a great gameplay that is authentic and fun in my opinion.However the jumping recoil is a uncontrolable recoil.

Recoil is a great skill aspect in a game that all these console shooters don t have anymore.They all work with artifical bullet spread offering a shooting experience that is sterile and lacking an important skill aspect.However the jumping recoil is uncontrolable, there is no skill to learn or to achieve.Don't get me wrong guys, i am not saying remove the recoil or make it weaker it is the jumping recoil i am criticising.

Here is the video:

MG-34 shooting and disassembly - YouTube

Please note that these guys know how to shoot.The guy with the DP-28 in the video above has a wrong stance and it is not in-game.

+1 Spot on.
 
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