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Tanks - The Good, The Bad and the Beauty.

What about the frontal vulnerability of the T-34 to AT rifles, that fire at or near the main gun? That poor tank can be penetrated with no issue at that spot, killing either the gunner or loader most of the time, making it a sitting duck. Is that realistic? I thought it had enough armor to withstand any frontal penetration on the turret and hull. Anyone know?

I didn't include any AT related stuff in the OP cos I don't have yet that much experience on how it actually plays out. Though I have read that there is something fishy in it, perhaps. Lets make this issue/suggestion/whatnot nr 28.

28. What about the frontal vulnerability of the T-34 to AT rifles, that fire at or near the main gun? That poor tank can be penetrated with no issue at that spot, killing either the gunner or loader most of the time, making it a sitting duck. Is that realistic? I thought it had enough armor to withstand any frontal penetration on the turret and hull. Anyone know?

Oldih had some good opinions about 15.
I am just wondering what will happen when the new tanks are introduced, if they are Pz3 and whatnot T-26 e.g. Will they be totally useless against these medium tanks if it now already takes several shots from these 2 to kill each other?
 
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Not being able to drive the pz4 with you head out of the hatch is a feature, that's all I got.
A "feature" aka a bug? Here is a video unless the head out of the hatch is on a stick but he does look at the camera at 3:20 and 3:40:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vR-3HTDdjG0#t=200s"][URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vR-3HTDdjG0#t=200s[/URL][/URL]



What about the frontal vulnerability of the T-34 to AT rifles, that fire at or near the main gun? That poor tank can be penetrated with no issue at that spot, killing either the gunner or loader most of the time, making it a sitting duck. Is that realistic? I thought it had enough armor to withstand any frontal penetration on the turret and hull. Anyone know?
This is most definately not realistic. The AT rifle should not do squat to any part of the front of both tanks in RO II. What I am thinking is that:

1. Its purposely overpowered for the exact purpose of killing gunners/loaders or
2. A tiny, tiny part of the gunners/loaders hitbox/hitzone is actually clipping through the front turret armor of the T34...

I am leaning towards overpowered as on the Panzer IV people are getting AT rifle sniped from a 50 mm round cupola which is more than thick enough to stop AT rifle rounds. Look here:
 
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I used to love tanking in RO, the whole experience was way better than what I have in RO2 at the moment, I remember having to angle tanks just right in a fight to get maximum deflection from incoming rounds whilst dueling at 1000m with T34's(Tiger was awsome at this if it's done right), is angling even in RO2? If it is I havent noticed, even if it was the map sizes Ive tried so far makes it feel like im fighting in a phone booth with a bazooka.

I did also notice that the ability to change from AP to HE rounds made me somewhat godly, sorry for the guys I was in a server with when I just sat next to the enemy attack point racking up kills with HE again and again, whilst switiching with no effort between round loadouts if a tank arrived, I was just doing what the game let me do and it felt wrong, and I was accused of ruining the the map!. I wont even mention the AI MG kills racking up on my behalf whilst I was in the can!

Then there are enemy tanks with the uncanny ability to take 5 or 6 rounds and then one shot me as soon as the turret on me just felt broken. ( I can buy being unlucky, but this happened far too many times and I was usually well hull down in great positions).

I also have a problem with over excited Ai tank crew screaming like girls at a Justin Beiber gig at the slightest ping of incoming anywhere on the tank, the first time this happened to me I saw on lone guy with an AT weapon not being very effective and killed him, not the huge barrel of an enemy tank I was expecting o.0.

I also agree with the total lack of suprise available to tankers on some maps, you have a set route to go and thats it, fine for balance reasons, it just doesn't sit well when you have a tactical tanker on the team who can't do what they want to support the team because they are effectively on rails thanks to map design, its far too easy to pick tanks off when you know where they are going to be 100% of the time, whats the point in the tank being there, just to spam HE into the distant fog hoping to get cheap kills?.

Tanks need a huge improvement and better maps imo.
 
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He's got his head in every time the tank turns and is only out when it's driving straight which you can do in the game.
 
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First time poster - long time reader ;) ...

First off - Thx to Tripwire for the game, it's awesome and has lots of
long-term potential. I see tons of bugs, but what impresses me is the fact that you seem to try very hard at fixing them, releasing patches and updates constantly. To me, it shows love for the game, not the money.

As far as tanking goes, love it! Looking forward to see some new tank-only maps. As mentioned by the OP, alot of these things need to be addressed , but I would like to add my one idea...

When the engine is dead (red), I would like to have the OPTION of scuttling the tank. Running out of ammo, and not being able to refit basically leaves you as a spectator. I end up having to leave the game and then come back in. (or perhaps the ability to call in a mobile repair vehicle that can refit you and ammo your tank up - take the ammo dumps off of the map. Off course the vehicle is quite vulnerable and can be intercepted.)

Thx again TWI - keep up the good work!
 
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I withdraw the "sometimes", it is more like always. It is more like exception if the tank is not hovering...

30. Aiming is misaligned, sometimes, for no apparent reason. The tank just shoots 10-30m side of the point where it should land. And there is no way of knowing when this happens, until u shoot.

21.
If you aim in a direction and press mouse 1 as the commander the turret will rotate to aim the direction specified. This can be done from outside or inside,

Didn't work for Pz4 at least.
 
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I like how they implemented the tank gameplay.. but they should add/change some things.

I suggest a sticky for this thread so we have all tank related issues in one thread.

the biggest things they should change for me are.

-add the option to invite friends in your tank so you can pick your own tank crew.
-I like the fact that you can tank alone. But I suggest they remove the fact that the AI auto engages enemies.
I know you can order them to hold fire.. but It can be really annoying.
And make it a server option.
-Turret control for the commander in the pz IV. (or can this be done in a way I don't know yet)
-more tanks ;)
-bigger tank maps.. we need room to maneuver
-switching from he to ap is to quick. you need to unload and load again when switching so takes at least twice the time it takes to reload the type of round you are using.
 
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Many of the points I agree with but not all. Too tired to go through it in detail...

One thing that I would like is to use Q and E (lean left/right) keys to rotate the turret/periscope. But not as rapidly as the arrow buttons currently do. Just rotate at the maximum rate of turn, and stop instantly the key is released. Right now moving is either an exercise in reaching for the arrow keys and trying to tap them in such a way that it doesn't turn way too much, or dragging the mouse around - a looooot.
 
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PzIV seems vastly superior to T-34, other than speed.
How big is the speed/manuverability difference really? I know that the T-34 accellerates well, turns well, and has a high top-speed (fast enough to actually avoid getting hit in the open, scary to do though). I have never seen a P4 get anywhere in a hurry. I see them turn the whole facing of the tank pretty fast (if they were moving forward at the time). And it can have a decent maximum forward speed, as I've seen them racing for places sometimes. But I don't think T-34 fast. The turrets always turn slowly, maybe because the gunner is using the mouse, I don't know.

Regarding vulnerability, I don't know either. Either the P4 gunners I face are all veterans, or it has a generally high chance of one-shotting T-34's. From my T-34 perspective, it is real hard work to one-shot P4's, as it requires aiming at those tiny ammo bins that are at the mid-right part of the hull. Someone said something about the T-34 having volatile stuff along the lower part of the inner hull, and them being much harder to one-shot if the hull is not exposed.
 
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alright, I'll give it a try next time, but I'm surprised how little hits it took to die. I've shot at a t-34 at least 4 times in the side, area between the turret and chassis, but, 1 shell, and 3 AT rounds really surprised me. BTW is there commands for the crew members of the tank, so I can tell my driver to move, if I'm gunning?
Once figuring out how to aim at the P4's you can imagine they would also be surprised it only takes one hit to blow them up on a frequent basis. I've had a few moments today where I peeked out on the side of two P4's firing at my kindred T-34, and I one shotted both of them. One was completely sideways to me, the other was something else. But sure is satisfying to not feel so helpless & inferior.

I see the same guys drive the P4s over and over, too, so I imagine they are often seasoned gunners, knowing what part to aim for.

Movement while not driver

You can use the normal movement keys (default = WASD keys) to give the driver orders to move. It is kind of clumsy and delayed, but have to do it sometimes. Practice getting the hang of it rather than always switching to drivers seat.


Commander of the T-34

The T-34 has the commander also doubling as the gunner (baaad). In many of the possible views, left clicking will make the turret rapidly swing to the direction you left-clicked at. Useful for acquiring targets, turning the turret a certain way before trouble hits, etc.

Situational awareness

Tanks have terrible situational awareness. Compared to a soldier, they have greatly impaired hearing and can barely look outside. When moving it is super loud from the engine and the inside is bouncing around. You must have situational awareness to find out what is going on, where the threats are (especially enemy tanks) so you can avoid getting killed while siezing opportunities - such as popping out of cover and killing a P4 or rushing to some better cover on their flank. You have the following options:

1. The PERISCOPE. Is the main method, is safe from small arms. Also mated to the gun for shooting. The view is terribly narrow though so not a good way to get an idea of what is really going on all around. Press the use key to toggle it being slaved to the main gun. When detached, you can look around 360 without the main gun or turret moving at all. When re-attaching it, the whole turret & gun will quickly swing to aim at what you were looking at, like a modern main battle tank. Great for looking for acquiring targets with, much less cumbersome than mousing around with the whole turret. As a bonus, I don't think anyone is really aware you can do this. They just assume you are only looking straight along the main gun. Infantry (AT especially) tend to hide out of sight whenever the main gun of a tank swings toward their direction, then pop out again when the gun is pointed elsewhere.

2. Turret left-side view slit:
There is a view slit on the left side of the turret. Mouse left in the turret and you will see it. Then, I think, left click (or is it right?). You can use the sprint key to zoom in and get a very good view through it. Left clicking the mouse while in its view will make the main gun turn to where you left clicked at (as usual), which in this case is 90 degrees to the left - where the slit is facing. You can do a 360 rotation drill, left clicking continously while looking out the slit zoomed in. Will give a quick idea if enemy AT infantry are closing in on you. Also, rememeber that they only think you are looking through the main optics along the main gun, and they won't try to conceal themselves unless they see that gun about to swing over them. The problem for me is accessing the slit in a practical way. Have to navigate the interface. A bit slow and cumbersome.

3. Opening the hatch and sticking your head out. The commander of the T-34 has a big nice hatch that he hunkers down behind (doesn't look like it from first person, but from third person he does). Like a bullet shield. Here you can see and hear everything from a commanding position. Can use the binoculars to spot stuff far away, and you can see over obstacles that obscure the entire rest of the tank. I don't recommend spending more than brief moments up there then hatching down again, just in case someone takes a shot at you. The shield protects the commander though but only if facing the right way. It is usually safe to be turned out while on the move. Too difficult for most infantry to hit. Left clicking makes the turret turn where you were clicking.

4. Talk to people on the team. Get them to feed you info about what is going on. Especially the enemy tank positions.
 
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You forgot to mention one of the worst and most unrealistic parts of tanking. Something I just cannot fathom how they were thinking when they designed it. Namely repairing your tank on supply points.

It would be a whole different matter if these supply points were only located back in spawn, but there are multiple points spread across the battlefield which means that you can park at one and be nearly invincible since your tank will be instantly repaired and any dead crewmen will be replaced. The only way you can be killed is if the ammo storage is hit killing you instantly.

This thing is as close to an exploit as you can get, and yet I don't see how they could've missed something as obvious as this, so it's probably intended. Yet another unfathomable design choice. What's the point of making the tanks as realistically modeled as they are if you're gonna allow instant repairs and crew revival while in combat?

About the issue 27.
Now I just figured that there is nothing stopping one from parking the tank 1 m from the depot and shooting from that spot and then fixing the tank with minimal effort by just moving 1 m.
So i would say, less repair depots, repairing should take more time and have perhaps some bar showing the progress and one could not enter a depot all the time but perhaps max 3 times per life (at least to fix the tank) and at least 1-3 mins chills out time between, maybe more.
Those depots are prone to be abused if the system is not tweaked.

About 15.; Pz4 at least seem to suck a lot of shells to the side as has been mentioned. The tank can be also one shot from the side but usually it takes 2-3, best so far has been around 4 shots to the side before it blew up. A side shot should be around 95% sure to penetrate and should create some serious havoc if not killing 80-90% of the time, imo.
 
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I think the tank spawn time is also way too fast, it's very frustrating to finally destroy that tank with your AT rifle just to see him be back in the same spot in 30 seconds.

The tanks usually end fighting each other instead of supporting infantry.

I really liked the tank system better in RO and DH, limited tank spawns and they really felt like they contributed to the outcome of the battle.
 
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