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VERY unfair maps!

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Soviet33

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 8, 2011
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#1
i am talking about Red orctober factory and comissar's house - impossible to win when playing with the attackers, in every single round the attacking team lost and could not even capture the first objective

Red october factory is the worst of all, the germans wearing dark grey uniform which make them impossible to spot + they instant spawn right in the objective area. the result: they "camp" like ghosts in every dark hole in the building with great overwiev on the attackers spawn and waypoints, and a cover from artillery. i've never played on unfair map like this, even that snow map from BC2 with the sniper hill is better than this! what was TW thinking when making this? and if you trying to make something very realistic, then make it - give the soviets extra slots or faster spawn on these maps or i don't know but make it fair and playable!
 
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#4
RO2 isn't just about having balanced maps. It's all about having scenarios. Some of those scenarios are painful for both sides, but it's what leads to something other than just TDM.

Red Oktober requires your team to be smart and for your squad leaders to be smart. You don't even have to go inside the building to cap it, you just need to get enough bodies to the walls so they can start capping. Or you flank left. Or you flank right. Or you do all three, and cap the objective in 3 minutes.

Commissar's House...is really freaking brutal if the Germans know exactly what they're doing. Which they do, a lot of the time. If you can beat them to capturing Building 81, you stand a chance. If you let them take and hold Building 81 with guys in the windows.....prepare to be spawned camped.

I've seen the Allies win this map a couple times, I know it's possible. But only if the whole team gets what they need to do in the very first two minutes of the match.
 
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#5
I haven't played Commisarhouse that often, but I did play redoctober sometime. I actually managed to win more than half of the battles on that map, as long as the commander drops some arty on the germans, it's not even that hard..

RO2 is about teamwork, which almost no one is doing right now, wait some time before complaining about balance this much
 
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#6
Nenjin said:
RO2 isn't just about having balanced maps. It's all about having scenarios. Some of those scenarios are painful for both sides, but it's what leads to something other than just TDM.
Click to expand...

This is the truth about most of RO2 maps.

Outside of Barracks, Fallen Fighters and Pavlo's House, all other maps have attacker/defender role for the factions and defenders will have pretty easy time getting the kills.
 
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#7
I don't think the game is build based on balance..
I played a match being Axis on that factory map, it always depends on how good your team and you are to defend the objective. Spawns for the Axis for the first objective is pretty close, but after that is a pain to get to the frontline. In one round, we managed to defend the first objective till the last min, but in another round we got pushed back very hard and not manage to defend most of the objectives after losing the first one.
 
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#8
The problem is that in most maps the defenders don't need a decent team to win, because they are protected by lockdown and get almost the same amount of reinforcements as the attackers. Maps like Red October and Commissar's House would be so much better without lockdown and with the double of reinforcements for the attackers. We can't have pyrrhic victories in RO2 like we could in RO1.
 
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#9
Yeah, out of many games so far, I've noticed Oktober factory and Commisar's house seem to be the most unbalanced. That is to say, no matter how many Germans I blow up with artillery we still never win, and my team can almost never advance past the first objectives (if they even get those).
 
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#10
Personally, I like Lockdown. I'm there to do something in RO2, not to camp back and get a few kills. It kills me to sit there doing nothing and going nowhere....and without Lockdown, there's little to no incentive for people to do anything more than find a spot and get comfortable.

And it serves a second purpose. If no one on the attacking team is interested in putting out any effort, I'm glad lockdown is there to get us to another map where people are actually willing to play.

If every game of RO Factory was a 30 minute orgy of Axis killing Russians trying to get the first objective, I wouldn't play it. Because I'd be alone up there dying because I refuse to sit on my *** and be camped, but I can't win without a team behind me.

Maybe lockdown timers are a weebit short. But I like knowing that, either we're getting somewhere in 7 minutes, or we're getting to a map where everyone on my team won't feel so gutless.

Plus there is nothing like the rush of a well-planned assault that's going your way, or BEING the reason your team beat the Lockdown timer.
 
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#11
Every map in RO2 is quite winnable from either side. Just not in the same way or with the same number of resources used.

That's one of the things I'm really beginning to love about RO2; its organized chaos or asymmetry with regard to balance.

I think you'll find that pub-play (while it never is truly balanced in any FPS) is really really really not balanced in the traditional sense when it comes to RO2. In order to get the most out of RO2 pub-play (which is significantly different from clan-play) the player must embrace imbalance and simply (not unlike actual warfare) just sometimes hope to survive. So far I don't mind that too much! ;)


I also can't wait for the clan-play to really start because as we all know, that is when an FPS really begins to shine and show its true colours. That is also when balance discussions are actually necessary because; now you are talking about similarily-skilled opponents all on VOIP executing tactics with near-military precision (sometimes...hehe) instead of the often mis-matched and under skilled/lopsided teams one encounters all too often when engaging in pub-play.
 
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#12
Nenjin said:
Personally, I like Lockdown. I'm there to do something in RO2, not to camp back and get a few kills. It kills me to sit there doing nothing and going nowhere....and without Lockdown, there's little to no incentive for people to do anything more than find a spot and get comfortable.

And it serves a second purpose. If no one on the attacking team is interested in putting out any effort, I'm glad lockdown is there to get us to another map where people are actually willing to play.

If every game of RO Factory was a 30 minute orgy of Axis killing Russians trying to get the first objective, I wouldn't play it. Because I'd be alone up there dying because I refuse to sit on my *** and be camped, but I can't win without a team behind me.

Maybe lockdown timers are a weebit short. But I like knowing that, either we're getting somewhere in 7 minutes, or we're getting to a map where everyone on my team won't feel so gutless.

Plus there is nothing like the rush of a well-planned assault that's going your way, or BEING the reason your team beat the Lockdown timer.
Click to expand...
Actually, lockdown only forces the attacking team to rush recklessly. In RO Factory there isn't enough time for the Russians to call artillery, suppress and flank nor enough reinforcements for them to use human wave tactics. Sometimes victory must be earned in a lot of blood like Basovka. There's already the map time and it worked pretty well in ROOST. I miss maps like Tula Outskirts where the Germans would suffer to take the first line but after that they would steamroll the Russian team. Lockdown is just a game breaking feature in my opinion and it would only be useful if the attackers run out of reinforcements. Leave countdown timers to Countdown mode.
 
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#13
Ive played with some pretty good teams and tbh i think its only really Commissar house that needs looking at from allies side.

Not only is it a hard fight,that can be done by the way with a good team even against good defenders, but its the fact that if you lose momentum even for a minute or so Lockdown appears and all your plans go to hell.

Had a good game yesterday on Commissar we fought hard as allies and manged to cap A B C and D and made a push on E but even then lockdown appears and we lose. Change lockdown or get rid of it please.
 
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#14
The Allies just need more space to breath around their spawn point on Commissar's. The water plant is RIGHT in front of their spawn and covers the forward and right exits, and Building 81 covers the left flank of the building. I don't think there's another map that puts the Germans that close to the Russian spawn.

It'd be like having Germans camping in the gullies and windows overlooking the Russian spawn on Apartments.

I think they either need more hard, indestructible cover off the (German) left flank, or the land needs more ridges so they can at least get somewhere prone before they're picked off from a 2nd story window. Going out the (Russian) left of the Russian spawn is putting yourself in a firing lane that literally stretches to the other end of the level.

Or they could just push the water factory back a good 50 yards and give the Russians some actual cover outside of the building.
 
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#16
In RO Factory there isn't enough time for the Russians to call artillery, suppress and flank nor enough reinforcements for them to use human wave tactics.
Click to expand...
80% of the time I get anywhere on this map as Russians, it's going up the left side and either going into the factory from the left, or hugging the wall and going right until you get inside the zone.

It takes around 30 to 40 seconds to run up there from spawn. With smoke, you're in the cap in under a minute. The only thing that screws up my day on RO Factory as Russian is tanks on the left flank. That significantly slows things down.

Other than that, I actually don't get shut out of that map much as Russians anymore. Not like in beta.

I do agree lockdown is pretty excessive....but two rounds won easily is still a 10 minute match overall. The whole round system has ended up taking me close to 30 or more minutes to finish a good game.

Bottomline for me though, if my choices are staying on a map for a really long time, with a team that's never going to get anywhere, and getting raped...and finding a new server, I'll find a new server. With lockdown, I'm at least willing to keep the server pop up to see what's next.
 
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#17
Commissars and Redoctober are great maps for Soviet attackers. On Commissars you push into the nearest house early on, then use your tank(s) to clear out the second house for your continued push. A moderately intelligent team can do it.

Redoctober is actually the exact opposite of what the OP describes. The Soviet attackers spawn right next to the first objective, the German defenders spawn way back and will have to run to their defensive positions for the rest of the game. If th Soviet team can keep them momentum up they can win in only a few minutes, but it requires skillful tankers leading the way.

Maybe that is the problem for many people. Combined Arms maps are difficult for people who just want to go Rifleman or Assault rifles and pop heads. My main gaming buddy whines constantly about tanks being indestructible infantry massacring beasts. Well, he did until he actually tried tanking and realised how difficult it is. Commissars and Redoctober are the maps that are most dependent on good tankers I believe, more so than Pavlovs and Fallen (where tanks end up fighting eachother rather than supporting the infantry).

I guess this partially explains the popularity of Apartments and why it is so horribly overplayed.
 
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#18
To be honest I never have a problem to get into the cap zone, I am normally in the line and causing some havoc with my PPSH. I always call out the safe route to take but my team always end up holding back and getting blown up.

With comissars aswell, the first cap you see is not the best to take, I flank right with my squad and cap the right side, and then let my squad spawn of me and lay down some flanking fire from the trenches and the building, this tactic normally ALWAYS works, and the first three territories are capped, after that it becomes a camp fest. People just have to move up and take a risk, instead of hiding behined cover the whole time.

That doesnt mean to say the panzers on the left side taking out respawns does not help lol.
 
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#20
My gripe with camping is when I see 9/10ths my team behind the first objective while the other 1/10th are in the cap, getting shot up unable to overcome the enemy's numbers. Winning the caps is a pure numbers game, and every player should be finding the safest place to sit in the cap.

The people sitting on the outside, other than your commander and your MG, are just wasting time. Unless you're single-handedly cutting down the defenders from outside the cap....you're doing your team more good as a warm body IN the cap.

That's the camping that pisses me off. Let the marksmen sit in the middle of nowhere, that's his job. A rifleman's job is to get their *** in the cap!

Or as another forum member put it....

 
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