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Suppression, and why MG tactics aren't what they should be

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#61
swuboo said:
How is the person on the receiving end supposed to know whether an MG34 is fitted with a drum or taking belt? It's going to be firing in bursts either way.

Either way, and not speaking from personal experience, I suspect I would be good and truly terrified even if I knew it was a drum or a pan on the MG shooting over my head.
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I'm talking about the game, nothing else. The 2 available mgs have small drum magazines. The point is, you can't have sustained supressing fire.

We need this:

Shooting the WWII German MG42 - YouTube
 
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#62
Ro2007 said:
^thats why.

it's pretty clear to me that you made it sound like you have attacked an enemy position in real war, wich you now admit is utter bs and it was just excercise.
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Do you know what MILES gear is? I never once even suggested I had been in a war. You were the one that pulled out a bull**** war story. I said I had participated in an infantry unit assault on a position using MILES gear. That's the laser training device the military uses to simulate fire.

Give up.
 
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#63
6S.Manu said:
A guy with a bullet flying next to him should only think about his survival and this needs to be simulated to tell the difference from a game like CoD.

A guy alone surrounded by enemies should only think to escape from capture/death.
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So in your world, every soldier is a coward, thinking of nothing but survival?

So why do we keep giving so many of them medals?
 
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#67
M60.jpg

Of course you can perfectly compare an M60 with a MG42 that fires at least twice as fast, has a (albeit minimally) larger caliber and is (a little) heavier :rolleyes:


I have to agree that suppression is a little meh-ish executed, but I guess it's up to the player's skill. For now, use guns to kill enemies, nothing else.

Leto Atreides said:
To have any kind of supression, the MGs would need to be belt fed. Nobody is scared of an MG that has to slowly reload after only 50 rounds.
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Well, the MG42 would chew through drum mags in 3 seconds.

KarmakazeNZ said:
They are when I'm killing one man every 5 rounds
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By the time you're done reloading at least 2 enemies would've ran past, you can't make pauses between bursts that long.
 
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#68
I'll add here that ive noticed that the effect and longevity of surpression is MUCH higher in the hardcore mode ( me likes ). Its comparatively very short & subsides quicker in the easier modes.

I've found myself responding with a "shhhhhhiiii get to cover" to the HC model but just ignoring the non HC one because it is more of an annoyance than an interference. I've had a few times having only ONE bullet pass by sending my character into what is likely 30 seconds to ~1 minute of extreme surpression, high heart beet and complete screen saturation.
 
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#69
KarmakazeNZ said:
Do you know what MILES gear is? I never once even suggested I had been in a war. You were the one that pulled out a bull**** war story. I said I had participated in an infantry unit assault on a position using MILES gear. That's the laser training device the military uses to simulate fire.

Give up.
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Then you have no god damn idea what it is like to actually assault an enemy position. You have no idea what it is like to have bullets, specifically made to penetrate your vest, wiz by your body. You have no idea what it's like to see one of your buddies get cut down. You have no idea what will happen if you lose that fight. The only thing you have felt is the anger from your CO for losing an exercise.

Any "real world" experience you say is invalid.

For one, the M60 isn't a MG34/42. The M249 is nothing like the DP. They were not made for the purpose the M249, or the M60 for that matter, were. Trying to use them as examples are stupid.
 
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#72
Unorthadox said:
Then you have no god damn idea what it is like to actually assault an enemy position. You have no idea what it is like to have bullets, specifically made to penetrate your vest, wiz by your body. You have no idea what it's like to see one of your buddies get cut down. You have no idea what will happen if you lose that fight. The only thing you have felt is the anger from your CO for losing an exercise.
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Oh **** off with your drama. We are NOT talking about frigging moronic war stories. Oliver Stone might be interested, by I am not. If you know better, tell us. How were YOU trained to use the MG? Have you had ANY training at all?

Bloody armchair generals and their "war stories" gleaned from Hollywood and comic books. Give over. I do not care about how terrible you think war is. Tell me about how the soldier is trained to use his weapons, or admit you have no idea and keep out of it.

Any "real world" experience you say is invalid.
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Only to someone who has NONE.

For one, the M60 isn't a MG34/42.
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What is the difference in regards to how they are employed? Go on, show us you have a clue.

The M249 is nothing like the DP. They were not made for the purpose the M249, or the M60 for that matter, were. Trying to use them as examples are stupid.
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Oh really? Care to explain the difference between a light machine gun, a heavy machine gun, and a general purpose machine gun? You seem to know, so perhaps you can also explain why one GPMG is different from another GPMG?

How is an LMG employed that is different from an HMG? What is it about a GPMG that makes it GP? Answer any of those questions accurately and you'll see why I know you have no idea.
 
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#73
YoDawg753 said:
Of course you can perfectly compare an M60 with a MG42 that fires at least twice as fast, has a (albeit minimally) larger caliber and is (a little) heavier :rolleyes:
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Give me a break. We are talking about three round bursts, which are easily controllable, and the MG-34 even has a single shot option so I assume the 42 does too.

The point is holding and firing a MG like that is not impossible. So why am I not allowed to do it? It doesn't really matter because going prone is preferable anyway, but still, it should be an option. Just make the recoil very hard to control just like hip firing. That would be unrealistic but if balance demands it, OK. Just at least give me the option to learn how to control it, just like a real gunner would.

I have to agree that suppression is a little meh-ish executed, but I guess it's up to the player's skill. For now, use guns to kill enemies, nothing else.
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Gah, another one that hasn't got a clue. Suppression is a tactic, not a physical effect. Jesus. I suppress guys all the time, and I would be able to do it whether I had a "suppression" effect or not. It's simple, every time they move I try to kill them. They soon stop moving, one way or another.

By the time you're done reloading at least 2 enemies would've ran past, you can't make pauses between bursts that long.
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Why would I be reloading if I have 50 rounds, and I'm using only 5 rounds per enemy? If I have killed 10 guys then maybe a third or more of the enemy team is lying bleeding in front of me. I'll have plenty of time to reload.

You didn't really think that through, did you? The point is you fire a short burst at each guy you see, not long bursts at nothing. The latter just wastes ammo and makes you an easy target.

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Just to drive the point home: The MG 34 fires at about 800RPM. If every man in a ten man squad carried two belts of ammo while the gunner had 4, that's 2200 rounds of ammo. That adds up to about 3 minutes of sustained fire.

The ONLY MG's that are that free with their ammo are heavy support MG's in support platoons that sit back at stand-off distance. The gunner with an infantry platoon does not use his gun that way.
 
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#76
KarmakazeNZ said:
So in your world, every soldier is a coward, thinking of nothing but survival?

So why do we keep giving so many of them medals?
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I think that a little share of soldiers is made of cowards like you say, and in the same time a little part is made of brave men.

Usually these brave men are selected as team leader (at least in real life this was required to lead a German squad, look below) because they have leadership, high IQ, courage and so on.

But there were also the ones who could not stand the fight (panic): remember that these ones were usually young men, not veterans.

So try to eliminate these two kinds of soldiers and what does remain? the well balanced soldiers: they fight but they don't take heroic actions alone, they think about their life.

Our avatar should be one of these ones. We already have the brave men (team leaders) and I don't think anyone would play the coward role...
Anyway there are many soldiers who get medals, and at the same time there are a many soldiers who return home in a coffin. Is it because they weren't brave men? I don't think so.

catturaza.jpg


cattura2ms.jpg
 
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#77
Guys, are super-inaccurate german MGs back? In RO Mg 42 was extremely inaccurate to balance it around DP28 which was very very accurate in game for some reason. Now I read that MG 34 is not accurate at all. It seems devs haven't learned anything since 2005.
If Mg34 is not accurate, then wait for MG 42. Now this will be really, really bad :)
 
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#79
I find the MG34 (at least) fine, set it up in the right place and you can decimate an entire team still, its very accurate firing single shots from my experience in game looks to be at least as accurate as the semi-auto rifles. anything more than 3 round bursts and it will bounce around or just climb.

as far as suppression goes, meh, the whole thing bugs randomly for me, just end up suppressed for no reason & it can linger for ages.

i'd be willing to bet that guy with the m60 wouldn't get very far shooting the weapon in that position, there is no way he could brace it properly with his build.
 
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#80
KarmakazeNZ said:
So why do so many people moan when they can't respawn? In fact why are YOU so bothered by the "lack of suppression"? Surely you mustn't care if that rifleman pops up and takes you out... its only a game... right?

No the reason there are so many complaints about the weapons at the moment is because people like you are dying so easily and its getting to you. Protip: that is simulated fear of dying. Blurry eyes has nothing to do with it.

Everyone is looking for a way to change the game to make it less dangerous for them. That means it IS dangerous. At least that is how it is being perceived. It's just that you guys haven't realised that YOU are the problem, not the game. You need to change the way you play rather than moan about how its too hard.
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Wow, it's just one BS comment after the other from you.

No, I don't want to change the game to make it easier for me, in fact I rarely played the MG role in RO where it was easier than it is now.
What I am suggesting is that we get a proper simulation of suppression.
And you know what, it's not only machine guns that can be used to suppress the enemy, so it goes both ways.

I for one would be thrilled to be under fire and getting suppressed and then try to work myself out of the situation.
For example, if you're several players under fire you could still return fire against the MG and with a bit of skill your concentrated fire against his surrounding he would become suppressed and that would in turn make your own suppression go down so that you could aim more calmly and take him out.

You're saying that we have fear of dying in the game because you don't want to wait for the next round, well that is just ridiculous, I've never heard of anyone that was afraid to die in a game.
The possibility of game death won't even make anyone nervous, so how is being shot at supposed to affect the player?

Of course you would not be the least bit scared of having bullets flying over your head from someone wanting to kill you in real life and you would promptly stand up in the line of fire, aim just like on the shooting range and take out the assailant in one shot.
I for one would be really scared and full of adrenaline and could probably not aim perfectly in that situation.

I believe that if we want real tactics to be usable, we need a simulation of how people act under fire.
Under fire = not calm, not aiming well
Not under fire = calm, aiming well

A good increase in weapon sway and some tunnel vision would probably be a good way to go when under fire, and the more lead per second in your surrounding, the worse it gets.
 
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