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A Firebug Suggestion.

NydusTemplar

Active member
Oct 29, 2009
34
0
Greetings all,

I've got an idea which could use some feedback.

Its for the Firebug, and it'd be keyed to '2'.

Essentially, its a high powered Flare Gun.

Basically, it'd do the following:

1) Act like the M79, except instead of exploding, just lighting the target on fire.

2) Weigh as much as a pistol, with fewer shots. (15-20?)

3) Stun if fired at the head just about any target (buying time against FPs and Scrakes).

4) Provide utility by lighting up rooms without the need for flashlights.

Others have put out there the idea of Incendiary ammo for the M79, making it like a napalm launcher, which is good, too. However, I like the idea of having a utilitarian sidearm which could buy me more time for my delicious napalm to incinerate big, stompy targets.

Wouldn't be 'too' hard to implement either, just have to give it the same firing animation in flight as the Husk's, and make it look like a bright road flare on the ground. Now the Pyro gets some use again, especially in those dark parts of the map where you normally never, ever go willingly.

Maybe even fire it at the ground in a narrow doorway or hallway and have it constantly light things on fire as they come along over it. Great for casting light, and revealing those sneaky stalkers.

Thoughts?
 
Other thoughts:

Team Fortress 2. Silly Idea. I'd rather have a real weapon.

Spoiler!


However, if you're suggesting napalm should stick on the ground longer, to light up areas as well as zeds walking over the fire, I can get behind that part for sure.
 
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Well, I'm not talking using it specifically to light stuff on fire. I was going for a more utility approach to another Firebug weapon. After all, the ability to stun a fleshpound with a flare to the head would certainly be welcome, same as being able to light up a dark place like the stairs to the roof in Office, or under the Police Station in West London, or just about everywhere in Asylum when you're on the move.

I was also trying to avoid specifically including changes to the flamethrower itself, though I have to agree that it does go out way too quickly when fired at the ground.

Rather have a real weapon is a fair piece of feedback though. It's kind of the downside of utility, though. Team players and all.
 
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I want a consensus on what everyone wants for a new flame oriented weapon god dammit.

Do we want all the explosives in the game to act incendiary?

Do we want more powerful and molotov cocktail inspired hand grenades?

Do we want a powerful singleshot flare gun capable of taking down fleshpounds and scrakes?

Do we want a power-torch?

Do we want the god-like M202A1 Flash?


I for one want stronger flame grenades, incendiary explosives, and just higher flamethrower damage. I think burning should last longer, as well as canisters should probably be 200% increase.

Firebug just isn't viable anymore. He used to be. Oh god did he used to be.
 
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I for one want stronger flame grenades, incendiary explosives, and just higher flamethrower damage. I think burning should last longer, as well as canisters should probably be 200% increase.

I agree with all that. The only thing I might add is that napalm should provide more area denial, ie lit-up ground stays lit up longer, and damages/ignites things passing through.

Alright. Basically, I want this:

Spoiler!
 
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Do we want all the explosives in the game to act incendiary?
I'm against this idea. Making the LAW, M79 and M32 incendiary would increase Firebugs effective range but range is not Firebugs problem. It's actually a valid limitation on the perk. Firebug is lacking a way to frontload massive amounts of damage. I'd expect incendiary explosives to perform in the same manner as the fire grenades, but if that's to be the case then they wouldn't be very helpful.
Do we want more powerful and molotov cocktail inspired hand grenades?
Again, not a fan of this because it doesn't solve the main problem. However, if it were to keep an area burning for a small amount of time and act as specimen denial (specimen wouldn't stupidly walk through a wall of fire), then it would be welcome as an upgrade to the fire grenades.
Do we want a powerful singleshot flare gun capable of taking down fleshpounds and scrakes?
If you've got a small flare gun and a flamethrower, realistically the flamethrower's going to be a hell of a lot better than a puny flare gun. Yeah, yeah, citing realism and such in this game. It's already been argued in other threads, so let's leave that stuff alone. As for the ability to keep an area lit, well, that doesn't sound like the boost Firebug needs to get it in line with the other perks.
Do we want a power-torch?
..Man, I hate coming across as negative with all of the "no." I'm also not keen on this idea. Welding something in the face sure sounds awesome, but I don't think I want to be that close to the enemy. If I wanted to do that, I would've picked Berserker. Best case scenario it would be a way to frontload massive amounts of damage. But the situatations where you need that damage are also situations where you don't want to be anywhere near the specimen. Fleshpounds, scrakes, and the Patriarch for example.
Do we want the god-like M202A1 Flash?
Had to go look this one up. For the most part, no comment. I haven't given it enough thought. It sounds like just an incendiary LAW, but I know that can't be all there is to it.
 
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I'm against this idea. Making the LAW, M79 and M32 incendiary would increase Firebugs effective range but range is not Firebugs problem. It's actually a valid limitation on the perk. Firebug is lacking a way to frontload massive amounts of damage. I'd expect incendiary explosives to perform in the same manner as the fire grenades, but if that's to be the case then they wouldn't be very helpful.
Again, not a fan of this because it doesn't solve the main problem. However, if it were to keep an area burning for a small amount of time and act as specimen denial (specimen wouldn't stupidly walk through a wall of fire), then it would be welcome as an upgrade to the fire grenades.
If you've got a small flare gun and a flamethrower, realistically the flamethrower's going to be a hell of a lot better than a puny flare gun. Yeah, yeah, citing realism and such in this game. It's already been argued in other threads, so let's leave that stuff alone. As for the ability to keep an area lit, well, that doesn't sound like the boost Firebug needs to get it in line with the other perks.
..Man, I hate coming across as negative with all of the "no." I'm also not keen on this idea. Welding something in the face sure sounds awesome, but I don't think I want to be that close to the enemy. If I wanted to do that, I would've picked Berserker. Best case scenario it would be a way to frontload massive amounts of damage. But the situatations where you need that damage are also situations where you don't want to be anywhere near the specimen. Fleshpounds, scrakes, and the Patriarch for example.
Had to go look this one up. For the most part, no comment. I haven't given it enough thought. It sounds like just an incendiary LAW, but I know that can't be all there is to it.
Well, as I said, is that what people wnat. I listed what I truly wanted, and indeed, I want the grenades of the firebug to act as specimen denial with flame damage attached. I also want the Firebug to have more damage and ammo, because he needs it to work effectively now, his upgrades were crap, and he didn't receive any new weapons. Also, I agree with DocDave, the fire on the ground from any firebug weaponry should last longer.

There is another thread that throws the idea out of laying down non-ignited fuel. This idea is something I want, especially if you can light the fuel later.

There is a lot of people that say a flare gun is something wanted. Firebugs can't take on scrakes or fleshpounds without wasting a large supply of their ammo (IE, Support, who shouldn't be attacking those enemies in the first place.) He is a supportive class meant to be able to take out multiple enemies easily. If he received a low ammo, high damage flare gun, which needs to hit in order to attach itself to scrakes or fleshpounds to be effective, he would alternately have a low supply of high level monster killer ammo. I know, it seems really way too versatile, but it's just a suggestion that's been thrown out there. It's also a suggestion combined with the non-ignited fuel, as how else would you want to light it? =D

The flare gun lighting up dark areas is just too smart. I mean, how often do people complain about only having a flashlight? An MP7 weighted, 10 round flare gun would do wonders for this game, especially if it was oriented to work for the firebug. Especially if it was combined with fuel ignition.
 
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Alright, somehow we've drifted here. Let's back this up a second.

The flaregun was never intended to be an instant kill for a Fleshpound and a Scrake, nor was that the purpose I intended. It was intended so that you could fire it down range to, for lack of a better term, bonk it on the head and stop it for a second. The reload time alone would mean that you couldn't really spam it, and the low ammo would balance it out. It would be for emergencies to hold a FP back while it was on fire, and your squadmates could then focus and deal with it.

And it wasn't supposed to be a standard flare gun, it was supposed to be like a high pressure or high force projectile flare, almost like a flare bottle rocket. However, if you're not really a fan of the idea, than that's perfectly fine, just please give feedback on the matter aside from 'I don't like it.'

Now, if I was explaining it poorly, then I suppose that, too, is valid feedback, but I wasn't suggesting welding faces, molotov grenades/pipes, or anything close to it. I was looking for feed back in relation to the idea I put forth.

Additionally, this is the forum board for suggestions, of course there is going to be and should indeed be multiple suggestions and multiple ideas being put forth for everyone to look at, that's kind of the point. The way to decide which of these would seem the best is to discuss each one in their respective threads, and let TWI sort it out. The consenus will be what appears the most feasible and the most desired. Ultimately, however, its whatever TWI does or doesn't go with.

So, other feedback related to the idea presented in the first post?
 
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And it wasn't supposed to be a standard flare gun, it was supposed to be like a high pressure or high force projectile flare, almost like a flare bottle rocket. However, if you're not really a fan of the idea, than that's perfectly fine, just please give feedback on the matter aside from 'I don't like it.'
Well, I thought I had the main reason why covered in the first quote-thing. Firebug needs a weapon that frontloads a lot of damage. While your idea is unique (the first I've heard of a stun effect, which'd be nifty) it doesn't quite solve that.

All right, though, some constructive stuff: you said to balance the flare gun, its limitations would be a low ammo reserve and a slow rate of fire. The latter part is critical, but requires a question. How fast would the projectile move? If it is slow, say, similar to how a husks weapon works, timing would be absolutely critical edging on completely annoying. However all of this isn't an issue if the projectile moves quickly.
 
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I imagine the projectile would travel as fast as a crossbow bolt or medic syringe. It would be tricky to place the shot if the fleshpound were, say, moving sideways, but generally you only need to really stun the FP when its coming head on, generally to gut someone.

I think part of the issue here is a philsophical one. I'm trying not to approach this from a 'Firebug takes down everything solo', which creates the implied need for frontloading tons of damage. I'm approaching this from the perspective of team work, I.E. you've got multiple fleshpounds moving in and you need time to clear the field and deal with them. Pull out the flare gun, nail one and he stuns for a second, spacing them out a tad, or one starts to charge as they lay into him, and you pop him in the head to stun him and break up the charge.

Now, from the perspective of soloing, yes this weapon wouldn't really give you a massive edge, but considering I don't think most people want this game to be about people being able to go rogue and own every Zed in a level, like certain perks can currently, it makes sense to bend suggestions toward where the game will most likely go.

I should clarify when I said that slow rate of fire, I was really just refering to the reload time since you'd have to reload every shot. That could be my mistake in presentation of the idea.

Also, I should say that one of the things that, I think, the Firebug should and maybe does have over the Demolitions Perk is that they are more efficient with less line of sight disruption. The trade off is that they don't create the instant gratification of an explosion or front load damage to instantly destroy weaker groups. Two bursts from a flamethrower can kill most of the smaller Zeds before they get to people if you've got some good distance, say the same distance you'd need to place and effective grenade or two to bring down certain Zeds. The difference is you're expending a rather paltry amount of fuel versus a full on grenade, which also takes time to reload and creates a vulnerability for the team in line of sight obstruction.

Heck, if it lights up an area, it may prove even more useful for teammates if you fire one into a dark place where normally you'd have to weld and hold a door, so now you can have someone sitting there and light up without spraying and praying or relying on a flashlight. Maybe that's not worth it in the end, but I'm looking for the options to do what needs done when it needs done.

I don't think this should be the only new weapon Firebugs get mind you, but merely one of them. The Perk is long past due to recieve new weapons.
 
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