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Run and Gun

hanky

Grizzled Veteran
Aug 1, 2011
340
121
Quick question or more so comments.


One thing I really don't like from the video and RO1 was the ablility to run with a smg and fire. Although I know it was considerately inaccurate, alot of players do this.

And my first question is do you guys like this?

Another statement is I was in the army, did alot of MOUT training...never did we "run at the rifle at our hips and charge in" kinda tatics. Just not practical.

Now this isn't a RANT "You havn't played the game" kinda post.

I'm asking if you guys like this...also I have a quick fix for it (If it is a problem...maybe I'm the only one who finds this annoying)


Quick fix: Just have the players go to a walk when firing a smg. This will prevent running. Also when you fire the weapon from the hip, have an animation bring the weapon closer to the face. Simulating a "braced" effect of firing the weapon. When firing a SAW in the army you had to hold on to that sucker while standing (still inaccurate)

Again not a rant, really want to know ya'll opionions, if enough players don't like this and TWI see's this post maybe we can have this changed. If not and you think I'm a just being a whinnie little punk....let me know "nicely"

Thank you :)
 
Well just cause you can do it doesn't mean it's fun for game play. And this is my opinion of course. In real life if you run while firing a smg, there gonna be ALL over the place and "sway" with you turning your body. (like Arma) I'm really posting this to ask if you guys like this ingame or find it annoying like me. Not saying I dont like it change it now! lol so yeah. Just wondering.
 
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CQB, you can get multiple hip fire kills as its not hard at all, although if your're outside and the commie is 20 meters away, well than you might want a rifle.

Yeah I find it pretty easy to just run in a building and spray if I have a full clip while clearing a building never stooping in RO1.

One of my concerns is it looks a little cheesy a player with a upright position running and gunning.

And don't find it that fun of game play. (again not trying to start a war {opinion})

Wish there was a server setting could have that could imply my go to a walk bring weapon closer to the face while firing from the hip option.
 
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Considering the fact my whole family fought in the SS and Wehrmacht (Possibly even the Nazi Party directly!!!), excluding my GGF he went to the states in the 20's and there he fought in france for the 'mericans in WWII as an engineer.

I'm not saying the Nazi's made great choices (Holocaust, racism, etc) but the Core Values and the whole force in general was amazing. Atleast that's how my family fought it.


Yeah I find it pretty easy to just run in a building and spray if I have a full clip while clearing a building never stooping in RO1.

One of my concerns is it looks a little cheesy a player with a upright position running and gunning.

And don't find it that fun of game play. (again not trying to start a war {opinion})

Wish there was a server setting could have that could imply my go to a walk bring weapon closer to the face while firing from the hip option.

Runnin' Gun is gonna happen as long as you respawn. I have never seen someone do that when reinforcements have been depleted unless they are wanting to risk their life for the sake of the round.
 
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you were in the army in the late 30's/early 40's? :p

plus, a saw != a submachinegun :D

no, Thank god lol. And yes I know, but no standard issue SMG's these days unfortunately. (SF guys I rolled out with did have some...lucky bastards) So only thing I can compare to. Although fires a rifle round, you still have to hold on it the weapon. I have a 9mm Highpoint rifle (very cheap version of a mp5{using imagination}) It's not fully automatic but you wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn if you tried to run and shoot it, and would still have to brace the weapon while firing it because although its light, its not a toy.
 
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Running & gunning annoys the heck out of me, especially when there's a perk that steadies the stream of bullets. Who could actually run and keep the weapon pointing in the exact same position the whole time, no bumps, no sway, nada?

I agree, in reality you couldn't hit a barn door that way unless you were inside a small room with a barn door on it you were running towards.
 
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Running & gunning annoys the heck out of me, especially when there's a perk that steadies the stream of bullets. Who could actually run and keep the weapon pointing in the exact same position the whole time, no bumps, no sway, nada?

I agree, in reality you couldn't hit a barn door that way unless you were inside a small room with a barn door on it you were running towards.


Thank you, least I'm not the only one.

So what do you guys think about server options for this.

Or maybe for higher ranking being able to do this, and lower guys having to walk and shoot. (actually I already hate that idea)

unfortunately people can run with a mp40 and fire it in real life. Sadly not everybody can do this with accuracy. So do you take it out because its annoying and no body actually does this in real life. Or leave it in because "hey you can do that". But why add a feature because highly trained people can do something. Might as well add kunfu
 
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One thing I really don't like from the video and RO1 was the ablility to run with a smg and fire. Although I know it was considerately inaccurate, alot of players do this.

And my first question is do you guys like this?

Another statement is I was in the army, did alot of MOUT training...never did we "run at the rifle at our hips and charge in" kinda tatics. Just not practical.

I generally use bolt-action rifles in Red Orchestra, so I empathize with you in that I, too, dislike being riddled by submachine guns. In fact, I even feel guilty from time to time when playing as an assault class because of the ability to run, spray, and pray. :eek:

However, I disagree that this needs to be "fixed" for two reasons:

Firstly, on an accuracy standpoint there's nothing wrong with moving at a steady jog while firing a submachine gun from the hip. Not only were formalized MOUT tactics years from coming into existence in 1942-1943, the average soldier in Stalingrad had little to no training beforehand in how to fight in an urban environment. Ironic. :D

Chuikov's soldiers, workers, and conscripts, only a lucky few formations of which were well-trained at all, were literally indoctrinated to "knock" with a grenade, wait for it to explode, then charge into the room firing long bursts with their submachine guns.

German soldiers, while exceptionally well-drilled and trained, had never recieved any instruction on urban combat, as German strategic doctrine generally emphasized surrounding and bypassing reinforced enemy urban strongpoints rather than deliberately engaging them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Secondly, the gameplay. If it's inaccurate when shooting, which it is, why does it need to be "fixed" or "balanced"? I'd argue there already is balance. There's a natural difference between skilled and unskilled submachine gunners.

Skilled ones will line up their barrel from the hip, estimating where the bullets will fall if an enemy were to emerge. They PIE every corner. When firing, they compensate with a slow downwards slide of the mouse, effectively "bracing" the recoil, and they can 'walk' that hose of bullets all the way down a line of three enemies without running dry. They've experimented with these mechanics over and over, they've riddled walls and lamposts in empty practice servers to learn to control recoil when leaning, standing, crouching, running.:IS2:

A player who has reached this level of skill is absolutely lethal in close quarters, and one shouldn't complain about that select group. If you're a rifleman trying to engage one of these guys indoors, best of luck, because you made a bad, bad decision.:)

A less skilled submachine gunner often runs and guns in a very carefree manner. They count on reaction time and firepower alone to keep them alive.

That style of SMG running and gunning is very high-risk, high reward. Yes, those people sometimes do get annoyingly huge scores and lucky kills. However, their style leaves an opening for a rifleman or other disadvantaged class to kill them as they round a corner at a jog, gun at the hip, not a care in the world. They burn bright but burn fast, and they're generally not alive anymore by the time cooler-headed players finally cap the objective.:D

In short, in close quarters, most of the time:
Skilled SMG beats skilled rifleman
Skilled rifleman has decent odds against unskilled SMG
Unskilled rifleman is generally toast against any SMG.

You have a chance, no more no less. The SMG is called the "trench broom" for a reason, and if you miss, you're dust. Fair. Simple. Merciless on both sides.

That is a rant. I'm quite passionate on this point. As much as I hate SMGs getting a stroke of luck when I've dashed through their fire and am about to stab them in the gut, they dominate CQB for a reason: they were designed to.
 
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