• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Pistols and cone of fire

@Grobut: I don't see why applying gravity/ragdoll technology to bullets would be too straining on the server, many games already have very nice (and heavily used) physics systems that don't kill performance.

Gravity is allready there, and has been supported by the Unreal engine from the very start (Set "PHYS=Falling", in the projectile code, and voila! Ready made bullet drop), as for Ragdoll psysics, that can't really be applied to projectiles to create accuracy/inaccuracy, it's a different sort of thing.

The real bottleneck here is going to be the Servers, because there's allready a whole bunch of calculations going on when you fire off a round, gravity and normal conefire + the new penetration code, along side all the vector data of "where are you and where is the target" stuff, it's a little more complex than point and click on the code end of it, and adding a random yet progressively expanding conefire system to that, would only make it more complex.

And there's a real risk that if the packets that needs to be bounced around between server and clients gets too complex, too big, then the server may crap out when stressed and crop the packages, resulting in fired bullets vanishing into thin air (as would sometimes happen in Ost, because TWI was pushing the limits of what that engine/net-code would do).


I have done no testing of this myself, obviously, and can't nor won't outright rule it in or out, but i can see how it might cause problems, and be "the drop that made the glass overflow", if you will, for the net-code, i suspect there's a good reason why we don't commonly see the feature in games.
 
Upvote 0
O rly?

I owned a P-38 myself, and have shot a couple of different P-1's as well, big deal. The thing I'm talking about is not a specific weapon, I'm talking about people confusing today's accuracy of rifles/pistols with WW2 accuracy.

I probably don't have to tell you how crap nearly all ammo produced by any major power was back then. While a Kar98k might be damn accurate with nice and clean factory ammo, or even hand-loaded match ammunition, sh*tty ammunition will cause it to have a spread of ca. 1-2m at 100m.

My original point was that people simply shouldn't confuse the accuracy of a modern pistol and modern ammo with the accuracy of a WW2 pistol firing WW2 ammo. And people certainly won't be able to replicate the ability of a competition shooter calmly using a special match pistol and hand-loaded rounds with a WW2 pistol that probably hasn't been cleaned since the last bombardment, firing sh*tty WW2 ammo all the while being in the most brutal combat environment the world has ever seen.

I was led to believe that Lugers already were kind of like "match pistols", although it caused problems because of all the parts, and pistols like the TT33 were single action and the P38 DA/SA, do they still have bad trigger pulls in single action?

Also in RO, I generally empty half a pistol mag into a guy at close range to kill him, no uber head shots, although in my opinion pistols are better than bolts at close range.

One time as a Russian squad leader a German was trying to bayonet me, I emptied my pistol and it didn't kill him, so I hit him in the head with it and killed him, moments like that were epic.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
S1 P-1's have the nasty habbit of rupturing the slide, so unless you don't plan to shoot it a lot I'd rather go with a P-38 or a late P-1.

Overall the rusty, old and beat up '43 P-38 (all parts matching with WaA stamps) with the half rusty barrel (last third of barrel had deep rust marks, rifling still sharp as heck though) was the most accurate pistol I've ever seen in my life. Me and a friend of mine actually bought a pistol calibration frame to test accuracy, my P-38 beat everything, ranging from a brand new P-99 to a beat up M1911. I suspect that it was a attic or cellar discovery.

Once you get past the horrible trigger it's one of the finest pistols IMO, but beware of the lh brass ejection! :D

There are a couple of nice conversation kits for the P-1 though, especially .22LR for plinking fun and getting a feel for the trigger.

I purchased some 1800 9mm brass from the states last year, I was going to cast my own 9mm rounds. If i buy the P1 I think I will feed it lower loaded pistol ammo. Thanks for all the help though, when I go I'll definitely look around to see if they have some newer P1's in the pile...
 
Upvote 0
I hope there is no cone of fire and that you shoot where you aim, taking gravity and wind into account.

Unlikely. The main issue with most lower caliber pistols will be that the rounds simply don't retain significant velocity and spin at ranges beyond 100 (even 50) meters so the rounds just peter out and begin to drift. Imperfections in flight path are what cause inancuracy, the subtleties of such ballistic properties would be too complicated to model in-game, it's simply much easier to have a cone of fire.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Well I can give first-hand accounts of my inexperience with a P38 handgun.

After 150 rounds it was still difficult for me to reliably put every round into the paper target 50ft away at all, let alone in the middle where I wanted it.

Now imagine a soldier in the middle of a battlefield who has only minimal training with side arms. I'd assume the results would be similar.

What people have been saying about it having a stiff trigger is correct, though I wouldn't say ALL P38s are exactly like that. Regardless such things do have a serious impact on accuracy, especially with handguns. It's not the weapon itself being inaccurate, it's the person firing it, and I think in this case a (slightly larger than usual) cone of fire for handguns does make sense given the circumstances.
 
Upvote 0
Yes, the aim in RO should be more difficult ( this goes for all small arms ) as I still think it to easy to shoot and hit someone.


What?

Pistols are ridiculously innacurate in RO. The bullet spread more closely represents the weapons being fired by myopic drunks on oiled space hoppers :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Felix Ostheim
Upvote 0
I wholeheartedly support the point of view that pistols are depressingly useless as weapons in ROOst. Every single time I try to show them some much needed love, they fail, time and time again, to live up to anything.

Anecdote:
Arad, yesterday... As a russian AT soldier, I was near the bridge, very near the water's edge on the german bank (not the best spot, but I just couldn't resist the urge to take a few shots at a nearby panzer engaged in some serious tank on tank action). So there I was, I had just taken my first shot at the tank when I heard a gunshot very close to where I was and bullet whizzing by. Unfortunately, I had already hit the reload key and was stuck for a second or two. Another gunshot! I desperately try to unstuck myself (read: undeploy) from this most motionless state of affairs, but am only able to bring up and down the iron sights two times due to shear despair and confusion. 3 more bullets. Finally unstuck, I turn around, still prone, to take a look at the man about to kill me. 180 degrees and 2 whizzing bullets later, I face my foe, 4 meters away, crouched, pistol in his hand. I take out my pistol, just for the show, I don't even move: surely I am already dead anyway. He takes aim, fires his last bullet and... misses. Like he missed his 7 other shots. Now he reloads and strafes around me, actually trying to get closer to me so his next mag might be luckier. I take VERY carefully aimed shots, and finally kill him after 6 shots; he was about 2 meters away from me when he fell.

Trying to chase this laughable memory from my mind, I make my way to the german village and bunker up on the second story of a house. A few minutes later, I hear two german soldiers shooting right next to the house. I move to the window and I see them: one is crouched near a sandbag, taking aim at the russian village, the other is prone at his side, lying in wait. I take out my pistol to shoot them: the crouched soldier is so close I can only aim at his right arm, but I have a very clear view of the prone one. Excited, I take the best aim I possibly can: no need to rush things, and I know how horrid pistols can be. I miss 5 times. 6th time, I hit him in the leg. He turns arounds and starts shooting me. I try to shoot one last, well aimed bullet, but it too lands off target. Then he just killed me.

Morale of this story: pistols in ROOst are a joke.

I would love to love pistols... they just never love me back :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ralfst3r
Upvote 0