• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Momentum

Rich_Zap

Grizzled Veteran
Aug 8, 2006
251
0
Im starting to get really frustrated with something now... For the last several games ive had instances where ive been shot as im clicking the mouse to kill the guy whos shooting me. I have also had situations where im charging in to bayonet someone and they shoot me right before i release the bayonet.

This is really annoying as in real life unless it was a headshot you would still be able to pull the trigger if it was a torso injury and infact this is likely to happen as your muscles sieze up.

With the bayonet charge even if you get shot the bayonet should still carry on forward and impale the other guy.

What i would be interested in seeing is a system where when you die (unless its a headshot) you have 1 - 3 secs of limited control over your weapon. This wouldnt include movement to a great degree and you could be blinded similar to the shell shock effect but it would allow you to at least fire off a shot.
 
Two good riflemen will find their targets and engage almost simultaneously and even the worst noobs should be able to draw the bead on their enemy after 3 seconds!

Having any control after the shot hits you will result in a lot of double kills (i.e. both combatants kill each other), which are relatively rare now.

While this may be realistic (the reason people want their weapon to have "stopping power" in CQC is to limit the time their opponents shoot back when they are hit, because IRL people don't fall down and die instantly after they are shot like they do in Westerns - some people have taken amazing amounts of punishment and still shot back for minutes before dying!), IMO it would be detrimental to the game experience.
 
Upvote 0
Well, no control at all after you're hit (otherwise you can forget to survive almost any CQC situation), but at least if you pull the triger 1/2 second after your enemy does, your weapon should shoot, not only if you shoot exacly at the same milisecond...

Concerning the bayo thing... there's also no possibility to make a defending movement with your own weapon (what you would automatically do), so somehow it's just fair if the bayo does no carry on forward.
 
Upvote 0
i like idea of game give dying soldier control. then this make stopping power more important, this make confirming kills more important, it make less chance of "cheap kill". red orchestra already have system of "body injury" (leg, arm, torso, others). why not instead of make leg take away just "less hit points" make leg have own damage? it is shot with pistol, you are slow. it is shot with MG or blown off by grenade/arty, you must crawl. or for arm is hit you do not aim good, or arm is missing you not can use iron sights. thing like this.

why not? it give you more play. it make it more real. seem good for everyone?

i think it so silly when everybody drop dead from one shot. is like death ray gun!
 
Upvote 0
it is shot with MG or blown off by grenade/arty, you must crawl. or for arm is hit you do not aim good, or arm is missing you not can use iron sights. thing like this.

why not? it give you more play. it make it more real. seem good for everyone?

Uhh...

I'm speechless.

Umm...

Where to start?

People do not die of the "death ray", they become casualties. Casualties are combatants who can no longer fight. They are not necessarily dead on the spot. They may even be lightly injured but suffering from shock.

Anybody losing an entire leg or arm is a casualty. Anybody receiving a serious injury to these locations is similarly a casualty.

Not getting to raise iron sights because your arm is missing...? Having to crawl because you have no legs??? This would not make the game real! Quite on the contrary! Anybody receiving such massive injuries would not be able to fight on and having people fighting without their arms and legs would make this game a gruesome slapstick comedy or a scene from a zombie movie!

How about the screen going black when you lose your head? You could still spray with your Pa-pa-shah!
 
Upvote 0
Not getting to raise iron sights because your arm is missing...? Having to crawl because you have no legs??? This would not make the game real! Quite on the contrary! Anybody receiving such massive injuries would not be able to fight on and having people fighting without their arms and legs would make this game a gruesome slapstick comedy or a scene from a zombie movie!


Quote for truth Vonreuter.

I wonder where people get these ideas, that you can still fight after you been shot with rifle etc...?


Though this would make truely fearsome mod.:) (just joking)
 
Upvote 0
Uhh...

I'm speechless.

Umm...

Where to start?

People do not die of the "death ray", they become casualties. Casualties are combatants who can no longer fight. They are not necessarily dead on the spot. They may even be lightly injured but suffering from shock.

Anybody losing an entire leg or arm is a casualty. Anybody receiving a serious injury to these locations is similarly a casualty.

Not getting to raise iron sights because your arm is missing...? Having to crawl because you have no legs??? This would not make the game real! Quite on the contrary! Anybody receiving such massive injuries would not be able to fight on and having people fighting without their arms and legs would make this game a gruesome slapstick comedy or a scene from a zombie movie!

How about the screen going black when you lose your head? You could still spray with your Pa-pa-shah!
Pure genius! :D
 
Upvote 0
Infact ppl dont feel the bulletwound for the first minutes afaik,being the result of adrenaline pump.

Especially true in WW2 as compared to what people are used to from movies etc. Granted most casualties were caused by explosions, but as for bullet wounds; the bullets were full metal jacketed as military rounds are still. The bullet would often cut a nice path through the poor human body on the recieving end and go out the other side, slightly deformed, taking a bit of flesh with it, but unimpeded by any sort of body armour. If the bullet had lost momentum, it would come to rest in the body.

Bullet wounds in WW2 are not like Hollywood, when you get hit with a jacketed round, or most bullet calibres used, your feet certainly do not fly out from under you. The bullets cut through and tend not to expend as much of that kinetic energy in your body. (THis is different today because of body armour, bullets expend all of their energy into the armour, which can knock you off your feet. It is different for police bullets that are hollowpoint, causing them to mushroom inside the body and expending more kinetic energy there. And of course Hollywood, where all bullets seem to also hit you with the effect akin to having a mack truck attached to the front tip, or shootout movies/westerns, where even the smallest pistol rounds can assist you in doing a full on flip over any object nearby. )

These types of wounds did damage of course, but far less catastrophic than most people think. Many of these became wounded casualties, not able to fight, but as was the goal of the enemy, a serious drain on resources and the medical/supply/transport systems.

I think the game balances this nicely, by allowing us to have our body areas turn red to indicate a wound, yet still allowing us to fight on. Having every wound mean an end to fighting would make things much less fun, also having too much ability to absorb damage would be unrealistic. TW has allowed us to be wounded and fight on as if we are still on adrenaline from those minor injuries, yet unable to take critical damage and still fight.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Well. I believe taking rifle bullet (be it FMJ) through for example your belly, chest, shoulder, pelvis or any major bone at about 700m/s will make you fall down.

There is very large stopping power in rifle round to make you fall down and incapasitated to continue fighting. And it is not very much depending of the hit location.

And I am not talkin about hollywood or "western style" falling down. You just collapse like bag of potatoes.

Minor wounds that still let you continue fighting IRL and in game are more like scratches, not "real" wounds. There adrenaline can help you over the pain.

The difference with FMJ bullets and for example hollow points, is the size of wound canal. But the difference is most important on surgery table ( if you manage to get there) than anywhere else. Both bullets make you fall, but the hole that hollow point makes, is harder to sew up.:)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Infact ppl dont feel the bulletwound for the first minutes afaik,being the result of adrenaline pump.
The effect of adrenalin is way overrated. Yes, it is true that a mother lifted an entire car with her bare hands to get her baby out which was stuck beneath it. Due to adrenalin and as she used every single bit of power in her body.
It is also true that after the Hindenburg went down, someone jumped out of it, broke both of his legs and still ran away and survived.

This is the exception and not the rule though.

Not every scared soldier turns into some Hulk and not everyone with crushed bones can simply run on. Those are very rare occurences and they shouldn't be modeled in the game.

A shot to the heart is a shot to the heart. It doesn't matter if you feel it or not, because you will die!
A shot to the head could easily be ignored if it weren't for the fact that essential parts of your brain are damaged and you can't do much other than wait for help.
A shot to your legs or arms crushes bones. And even if you don't feel it, you still can't use them because they are broken.


It is true that some shots kill slowly if at all and that the one who is shot would easily have time to shoot back, or at least he would instinctively pull the trigger, but those kind of things should only be implemented in a tactical shooters singleplayer so one has to worry about stopping power and shots to the head, but in a multiplayer game this is utterly useless.

I mean, how often have you been shot and you didn't have the chance to shoot back in the next three seconds? Not too often. So if it was possible to shoot back once you are hit, there would hardly be any kill without a "re-kill" and that wouldn't be fun at all.
 
Upvote 0
why you are so mad to me? :(

is not zombie. i do understand.

i watch the channel is name of "national geographic". is show story of man have leg is eat by shark! is different from explosion yes. but still he do swim, he hit at shark, he come back to boat. if this is done why is not soldier also able to crawl, to shoot at enemy? i do not make this fiction!

game is name of "operation flashpoint" have similar idea. you are shoot hard in leg you do not walk, you do crawl. you are shoot in arm, it is difficulty hard to aim. why you do not try this game you will see my idea? i do not mean to make zombie come to life! this is like a different game is name of "wolfenstein" it does have zombie, mummy, ghost. not this!
 
Upvote 0
I'm in no way mad at you. If my post came across as harsh I want to excuse me for it because it wasn't meant like that. You see, English is not my mothertongue so sometimes I miss the tone without knowing it.

i watch the channel is name of "national geographic". is show story of man have leg is eat by shark! is different from explosion yes. but still he do swim, he hit at shark, he come back to boat. if this is done why is not soldier also able to crawl, to shoot at enemy? i do not make this fiction!
Ok. So now try to think about why this was mentioned on TV. Because its an everyday fact or because it was something special?

game is name of "operation flashpoint" have similar idea. you are shoot hard in leg you do not walk, you do crawl. you are shoot in arm, it is difficulty hard to aim. why you do not try this game you will see my idea?
I know that game. Its awesome, but Operation Flashpoint and Red Orchestra are completely different. RO doesn't have similarily huge levels and missions and you can respawn in RO.
You see, when you are injured in Flashpoint and you have to crawl you have to accept it and play on on the ground because you don't have any other choice. If you die you are gone for the rest of the round. And even as a cripple you could maybe still be able to kill someone.

However if this would happen in RO, the player would just commit suicide by crawling out of a building or by throwing a grenade to his feet, because he will simply respawn within the next few seconds.

We actually had something like that back in the days when RO was still a mod. They player was shot in the legs and from then on he could only walk, not jogg or sprint. People would commit suicide because if this because life isn't worth a whole lot in this game.

It might sound good on paper but we actually tried it before and it doesn't work in Red Orchestra!

At least the crawling part. We never got to try the "being able to shoot back a few seconds after you've been shot before you die"-part, but as it was explained before we don't even need to try it to find out that it wouldn't be good for the game.
i do not mean to make zombie come to life! this is like a different game is name of "wolfenstein" it does have zombie, mummy, ghost. not this!
Haha. I know. Its a great game after all.:D
 
Upvote 0