Mikhail Kalashnikov designed the Avtomat Kalashnikova 47, he just based part of his genious design on the STG-44
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The SMGs
- Thread starter KittyKitsune
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Mikhail Kalashnikov designed the Avtomat Kalashnikova 47, he just based part of his genious design on the STG-44
Good Engineering (Which also comes down to opinion) =/= Superior performance.
It's like the debate between the AKM vs M16A4. Both are decent, but both also suck in certain situations.
I do feel that the PPSh is under the MP40 when it comes to dominance, but we'll have to wait till we can put drums on them before we can really say whether or not it's truly inferior to the MP40.
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^ This
I cringe every time when people insist that the STG44 = AK47
Sum it up as two brilliant weapon designers independently coming up with the same idea around the same time...
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Mhmm..
Only if they hadn't been using German engineers would I believe such words; however they did, and exploited them. Tons of history covers this post WWII, and the evidence is against the Russians in this case, plus the propaganda methodology during post WWII would never allow German recognition in the USSR.
Doesnt take much to connect the dots; just need to find them all in the first place.
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The only thing the AK47 has in common with the Stg44 is shortened cartridges. It was almost certainly inspired by the revolutionary design but the ak47's design is far superior.
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Mhmm..
Only if they hadn't been using German engineers would I believe such words; however they did, and exploited them. Tons of history covers this post WWII, and the evidence is against the Russians in this case, plus the propaganda methodology during post WWII would never allow German recognition in the USSR. Mikhail Kalashnikov's 2009 admission stated Schmeisser "helped" design the famous AK-47. Took them how long to even credit him; the STG-44 made the AK-47 possible, thanks to German engineers.
Doesnt take much to connect the dots; just need to find them all in the first place.
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Took them how long to even credit him; the STG-44 made the AK-47 possible, thanks to German engineers.
Doesnt take much to connect the dots; just need to find them all in the first place.
You haven't connected all of them, obviously.
The Fedorov Avtomat was the basis for the STG 44. In reality, the Russians made the first practical "assault" rifle before they were called as such. The reason it never caught on was because it wasn't produced in large enough numbers for the world to notice it's effectiveness.
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Let's not forget that the PPSH has a semi-automatic fire selector. Could account for some of that ranged accuracy.
-Paas
-Paas
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The two firearms bear a superficial cosmetic similarity which is exactly why people who know stuff all about guns think they are similar/same. In fact they are very different designs.
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Whats all this talk about the stg 44 the Op was about smg's the stg was the worlds first assault rifle in a class by itself.
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The bullet is deadly up to that distance doesn't mean its accurate at that range.Owning a few 9mm pistols and rifles (what the mp40 was chambered in). I can say for the rifles 100 yds is about the range of its accuracy.The bullet just drops after that ....The pistols are lucky to hit anything at 50yds.The length of the barrel being the difference but, im talking RL from my own shooting experience.
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If you want to talk about SMG-related copycatting, look at the German MP 18, which was copied by the Soviet's in the PPD-40, which eventually became the PPSH-41. However, lets not dip into the "GERMANS INVENTED EVERYTHING INCLUDING PIZZA AND GOATS!1!!111111!!!111!!! LEEEEEET PWN" because they didn't.
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Actually they didn't have to copy alot of russian weapons they just used the real things lol ppsh was widely used by the germans.It was produced on a much greater scale than the mp40 and was highly reliable.During the first year of the war germans captured thousands of them.
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Uh, my friend and I love shooting our pistols at steel targets that are <1' in diameter @ 100 yards all the time. Hickok45 shoots targets w/ short barreled 9mms at 200-300 yards. Lucky to hit anything at 50 yds? Maybe you need to go back to the range and practice more if it takes luck for you to hit at 50 yds.
Bullet drop can be compensated by adjusting elevation or applying a bit of holdover. Despite the slow velocity, the round's accuracy is not hurt that much. It can still be accurate out to even 200 yards. It's just up to the shooter to do his part.
9mm AR at 200 yards - YouTube
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Lucky to hit anything at 50 yards? NRA pistol matches use an 8 inch target at 50 yards and 9x19 is a very common caliber in those matches.
That's besides the point, though. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a SMG in that era that has an effective range beyond 150 meters.
Additionally, the reason Germans were taught not to pull back on the magazine was because the bolt would slip over the top of the next round in the magazine and cause a failure to feed. You can replicate this with modern rifles and SMG's with removable magazines (especially if the magazine catch is a little worn).
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If by "very, very smiliar" you mean they both are gas-piston operated then uh sure...
i THINK he meant that they look alike.
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At the range lol
Best I remeber in ww2 the germans or russians didn't use match grade guns .I own a p38 and at 25 yds it keeps about a 2 to 3 inch pattern no matter who shots it.At 50 rds your lucky to hit the target.The mp40 in this video notice the spread at 25 yards.Im talking in game guns and the small calibers just wasn't accurate at 100 yards at all.Effective yes "if you hit the target"
sten vs mp40 - YouTube
notice how accurate the p38 was at 10yrds on a pistol rest
Luger, P38 Range Day! Part 1.... - YouTube
Anyone that's ever shot an older 9mm pistol from a weaver stance (or even knows what a weaver stance is lol) will know that hiting the target at 50yds is hard to do consistently. Even with modern pistols with iron "fixed stock" sights its difficult.You cant even compare range shooting with match guns to ww2 battlefield conditions.
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