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Nades..

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#21
Iirc they weren't produced in high Numbers and only for the Stielhandgranate 24 not the 39 (i have to check though). And this might be the reason we don't have it ingame. Checked, didn't find the Production values for the Splitterringe, but it did increase the Fragmentation Area from a 10-15 Meter Radius to 35 Meters...

Though we could get the Eihandgranate 39 (Eggshaped German Fragmentation Grenade), this was build in higher numbers, if memory serves me right.

Checked it, though there might be a Typo
Stielhandgranate 24 and 43 ~ 75,000,000 Units produced
Eihandgranate 39 ~ 75,000,000 Units produced


Didn't find the Production Rate for the Stielhandgranate 39.


Some general nice Facts:
Produced Granades (Germany only) during 1943 59,62 Million, during the year 1917 88,65 Millions, highest usage during the Second World War (Germany only) 17.421.000 Grenades (+ one Million misc Things that go boom) during August/Septembre 1944, which equals 198 Nades used per MINUTE.... talk about Nade Spamm....
 
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#24
What do you think about 10 or 15 nades/round by player? This make 1 nade/minutes and is enough for playing but not for spamming :)
And if you don't have nades and absolutly need one, still can have someones at ammopoints, but more longer so rushers will not do that.
Then players will use their nade just when it's really needed, and not for spamming, luckyshoots or because they don't want to aim with their weapon..
 
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#25
Witzig said:
Some general nice Facts:
Produced Granades (Germany only) during 1943 59,62 Million, during the year 1917 88,65 Millions, highest usage during the Second World War (Germany only) 17.421.000 Grenades (+ one Million misc Things that go boom) during August/Septembre 1944, which equals 198 Nades used per MINUTE.... talk about Nade Spamm....
Click to expand...

Nice statistic Witzig. Where did you find it? Have you also a statistic how much rifle/smg ammunition was produced?

If a average soldier threw a grenade usually after shooting about 5-10 rifle shots (or 30-60 SMG shots), then I would say RO does handle grenades realistically. But I expect that much more rifle/smg ammunition was used compared to grenades. Unfortunately I don't know where to find such statitical numbers.
 
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#26
Nobody uses bayonets? Should I stop? :p

I'll admit, they're not as useful on some maps as others, and I'll usually try a hipshot first on my way in, mainly because I expect the other guy to try one, too.

That's what I've loved about the 2 clicks/round on bolt action rifles; it doesn't leave you high and dry when your shot misses at point blank and it's time to stab someone.

I haven't seen a whole lot of people suicide-bombing with the grenades. If I were to go that route, I'd go with a satchel, personally. Much bigger blast radius.

Grenade-spamming.. What else are they for? See enemies in a strong defensive position, throw both your grenades in and charge. See enemies charging your position? Toss both your grenades out and get ready. Isn't that real-life use?

I haven't noticed the StG39 fuse being any shorter than the F1 fuse, just that it starts burning as soon as you click to begin your throw. The F1's fuse doesn't start until the spoon is released. I'm in the habit of a quick left-right click most of the time with those because of that reason.
 
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#27
I don't think the problem is the grenades themselves but its more of a problem with the map.

The maps that are known for nade spam are generaly close quarter battles, and the maps are small and a lot of people are on the server. This means more people packed closer together, so it becomes common occure for people to throw grenades around a corner or into other spots in order to kill as many people as possible. Sometimes it is just simply impossible on the tigher maps to get a shot off on one guy before 5 guys shoot you because you are exposing yourself. It is much more effective to protect your life and toss a couple grenades.
 
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#28
The reason why nades appear to be unbalanced in ROO (they are in fact not) is becuase many players know ahead of time where the enemy will be.

This was VERY true in the mod, however with the larger and more open ended maps that are in ROO this "pre knowledge" of the enemy location is not as big a problem.

(One more reason not to port koitos....)
 
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#29
I have no problem with how the nades are right now. They seem realistically appropriate with how they would be in real life. It's funny, how some people are complaining about the lack of CQB (close quarter battle) maps right now. Then watch when some more (as per requested) CQB maps come out and everyone starts complaining "too much nade spam...do something!" "limit nades", "limit throw distance", "only commanders get nades", "make them earn nades", "make them less damaging" etc etc. At a certain point (barring some glaring ridiculous error with the nades) people need to learn how to adapt if they're getting killed too much for their liking.
 
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#30
While I agree that the predictability of maps is a problem, because people learn the maps, I don't think this can be fixed until somebody comes up with Map Mutator, which makes terrain changes in every map before the round starts and sends it to all servers (welcome to map loading hell).

On the other hand, if people learn to 'nade areas where the best spots for the snipers and riflemen are, then perhaps it is possible for the snipers and riflemen to learn to stay clear of the spots that are always barraged by 'nades. It's called adapting. Perhaps grenades are a good thing in that they may keep the maps from stagnating into repetitious firefights from the same positions over and over again.

Grenades are an essential part of close-quarters battles and room clearing, and that's exactly what they were made for. There's nothing as awkward as seeing grenades that don't do their job, like the sorry fireworks of Counter-Strike.

When the range is right, even expert riflemen can be taken out by anybody who can pull a pin. War is hell, so get used to it.
 
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#33
Quietus said:
I have no problem with how the nades are right now. They seem realistically appropriate with how they would be in real life. It's funny, how some people are complaining about the lack of CQB (close quarter battle) maps right now. Then watch when some more (as per requested) CQB maps come out and everyone starts complaining "too much nade spam...do something!" "limit nades", "limit throw distance", "only commanders get nades", "make them earn nades", "make them less damaging" etc etc. At a certain point (barring some glaring ridiculous error with the nades) people need to learn how to adapt if they're getting killed too much for their liking.
Click to expand...

Realistically? Did you play the mod?

The grenades are nerfed compared to the mod now. The explosion radius was much larger in the mod and the the throwing range was larger.

The mod had realistic nade implimentation (real explosion radius), which is nerfed now for gameplay issues. So the nades aren't realistic anymore.

But in my opinion this solution is not sufficient, because the main problems of the nades are not solved.

-The nades are still super accurate to throw and too easy to use (fast weapon switch).
-People adapt to maps and use the grenades not realistically, but rather artificial.
-The respawn cycle of players makes constant resuply with nades, which leads in smaller maps to constant grenade spam. I must admit that there is no problem on larger maps, though.
-As there is no fear of death, people use nades often kamikaze style. Especially if there is the chance to wipe out several enemys at once.
 
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#34
MadMax said:
Realistically? Did you play the mod?

The grenades are nerfed compared to the mod now. The explosion radius was much larger in the mod and the the throwing range was larger.

The mod had realistic nade implimentation (real explosion radius), which is nerfed now for gameplay issues. So the nades aren't realistic anymore.


-As there is no fear of death, people use nades often kamikaze style. Especially if there is the chance to wipe out several enemys at once.
Click to expand...
Yes I did play the mod and I was fine with the nades then too. Supposedly they're less powerfull in Ostfront and look, people are still complaining about them! The one thing I agree with is they could add a little delay when accessing a grenade (like how long it would take in real life to pull the grenade from your belt, and arm it). Maybe an extra second or 2 longer than what it is now. Other than that they're fine.
As for the Kamikaze wiping out several guys at once...,try not to bunch up together. That's a bad tactic, keep your distance from each other. You can support your buddies without huddling like sardines.
 
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#35
{YBBS}Sage said:
Umm, they're slightly random now... or do you want them less random?
Click to expand...

I believe the German grenades are bugged at the moment because they explode at very random times especially when you throw your second grenade right after the first. With the Russian grenades I find it very easy to cook them and have them airburst where I want. I also think the straight arm windup animation should only be used when the player is actually throwing the grenade. Too many times I see Russians in full sprint with their arms fully extended ready to throw grenades. Doesn't look right as you would only put your arms out like that a second before you actually threw the grenade.
 
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#36
The problem with grenades isn’t the grenades blast or throwing range, it's the amount of evasion a grenade thrower has over a group of infantry firing at him. At the moment, it's extremely hard to hit someone throwing a grenade at you, and even if you try… ninety percent of the time the grenades are already on its way perfectly to you. All they have to do is pull the pin, zig zag left and right, aim in the general direction and release. Grenades in this game are more effective than firearms due to the mobility it grants the thrower.

There's that and the issue of them making no noise at all when they land near you.
 
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#38
I don't have a problems with nades. Compered to Mod the devs made some tweaks and I think they do to job now. Of course nothing is ever fininished. In my oppinion the stun and deafen effect should be increased and the damage should be decreased a little. Nades were not used to kill but to put the enemy out of action. But in RO this is the same out of action = dead.

Anyway the majority of of the guys that complain consider nade kill as cheap. For them only a kills are respected when you fought face-to-face. This reminds me of the japanes samurais who refused using firearms...
 
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#40
Amarok said:
:eek:
you're right... but I think the SAME people didn't like to get their butts shot off IRL... so let's shoot with marshmallows instead of bullets... isn't it?:D
Click to expand...

Yes, but you have to keep gameplay in mind. In real life I can take a standing shot at a target and hold my aim reasonably well with minimal shake and sway. In the game they made it so you can only hold a steady aim for certain amount of time without having your weapon braced. This way it prevents people out of heavy cover from easily defeating those within. It's a gameplay balance, and the same should be done with grenades.
 
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